2012 Rugby Championship Round 5 Game 2 Argentina vs New Zealand - 29 September

[Hugh Jarse]

22 September 2012: Travel Bye
29 September 2012:
South Africa vs Australia - Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria
Argentina vs New Zealand - Estadio Ciudad de La Plata, La Plata
Referee: J. Peyper (SARU), AR 1: C. Joubert (SARU); AR2: P. Gauzere (FFR); TMO: UAR appt.

6 October 2012:
South Africa vs New Zealand - FNB Stadium, Johannesburg
Argentina vs Australia - Estadio Gigante de Arroyito, Rosario

Time off for travel, and for the teams to rest those little niggles, bumps and bruises.

Los Pumas have been the dark horse, outperforming most punters expectations without being able to land a killer blow and close out a match.

They are a different outfit at home, and should step up by at least 10 points in passion, as the Saffers found when they escaped from Mendoza with a draw.

Meanwhile the Darkness are undefeated, but by their standards have been playing poorly with many tries gone begging, passes pushed, and mistakes made.

All their games have been at home, or close to home so far. The injury toll has been relatively kind to them, and the man some call Sir Richie Goat keeps on keeping on like a trusty old, ever reliable Caterpillar diesol engine.

 

[aeneas]

Im very nervous about this one. I would hate the All Blacks to be focusing on the other match ie the Boks in SA and forget to give this the attention it deserves. Argentina while not doing anything different than I imagine most people expected have been awesome in the tournament so far.

I can only assume that the Northern Hemisphere teams didnt want Argentina in the 6N's to avoid embarrassment.

 

[Manuel]

The teams:

Argentina: 15 Lucas Gonzalez Amorosino, 14 Gonzalo Camacho, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Santiago Fernandez, 11 Horacio Agulla, 10 Juan Martin Hernandez, 9 Martin Landajo, 8 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe (c), 7 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6 Julio Farias Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Eusebio Guinazu, 1 Rodrigo Roncero.
Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Marcos Ayerza, 18 Tomas Vallejos, 19 Tomas Leonardi, 20 Nicolas Vergallo, 21 Martin Rodriguez, 22 Juan Imhoff.

New Zealand: 15 Israel Dagg, 14 Cory Jane, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Daniel Carter, 9 Aaron Smith, 8 Kieran Read, 7 Richie McCaw (c), 6 Liam Messam, 5 Sam Whitelock, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Andrew Hore, 1 Tony Woodcock.
Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Charlie Faumuina, 18 Brodie Retallick, 19 Sam Cane, 20 Piri Weepu, 21 Aaron Cruden, 22 Ben Smith.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

That is a good strength Darkness outfit.

They are showing the Argies full respect by fielding what is close to their #1 team.

Los Pumas will give this a red hot go, but the Darkness to win by 15.

 

[cyclopath]

Close to full strength? I struggle to see the cream they can add to that to make it any better?
ABs by 10-15 because it is in Argentina.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am not a great fan of Messam. Probably deserves a gig on the bench though.

I would like to see:
6. Read
7. Cane
8. McCaw (c)
19. Messam

Otherwise no real issues with the rest of the team as selected.

 

[Antony]

Close to full strength? I struggle to see the cream they can add to that to make it any better?
ABs by 10-15 because it is in Argentina.

Agreed. That is a 100% first string side, at least by the reckoning of these coaches.

I wish we were starting Cane ahead of McCaw - he's going to break, and we could probably get the job done without him.

 

[badabing59]

Agreed. That is a 100% first string side, at least by the reckoning of these coaches.

I wish we were starting Cane ahead of McCaw - he's going to break, and we could probably get the job done without him.

Absolutely agree, not sure we could make this team any better. A tough day at the mill, but AB's by 10.

 

[The Red Baron]

I am not a great fan of Messam. Probably deserves a gig on the bench though.

I would like to see:
6. Read
7. Cane
8. McCaw (c)
19. Messam

Otherwise no real issues with the rest of the team as selected.

Why would you take the best No.8 going round and play him at 6? Same with McCaw at 7. You don't play two of the best in the world out of position to accommodate a youngster.

Yes Cane has talent, but not enough to force a total re-jig of the AB backrow.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

#6 is one of the areas where the Darkness are a little vulnerable at the moment, IMHO.

I think that Messam is not quite there as a Test #6. Between them, McCaw and Read can execute the duties of a #6 and #8 regardless of the number they have on their back.

For ongoing rejuvination of the Darkness machine, Cane needs more game time and exposure to physical hardarses like the Pumas.

If it all turns a brown colour, then Messam off the bench is a reasonable fall back option.

 

[FrankLind]

I think we'll win, but only just.

After what happened to the Boks, we won't be underestimating the Argis in their own backyard.

 

[Athilnaur]

If the Pumas can stop the ABs from scoring 2 runaway tries in the first half I think it will be close and they have a good shot at it.

But I think, like the wallabies, the blacks will cut them open twice or more with fast play, only they won't flub the tries.

 

[ACT Crusader]

#6 is one of the areas where the Darkness are a little vulnerable at the moment, IMHO.

I think that Messam is not quite there as a Test #6. Between them, McCaw and Read can execute the duties of a #6 and #8 regardless of the number they have on their back.

For ongoing rejuvination of the Darkness machine, Cane needs more game time and exposure to physical hardarses like the Pumas.

If it all turns a brown colour, then Messam off the bench is a reasonable fall back option.

Hugh, Read is the best base of the scrum ball runner in NZ. We need him at 8. Plus Cane played a bit of left/right flank at the Chiefs with Latimer, so is not unaccustomed to either 6 or 7.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What is your view on Messam vs Cane then? Who should be on the bench?

 

[Dam0]

I am not a great fan of Messam. Probably deserves a gig on the bench though.

I would like to see:
6. Read
7. Cane
8. McCaw (c)
19. Messam

Otherwise no real issues with the rest of the team as selected.

I would not be unopposed to this being tried, but I hardly think La Plata against a fired up Pumas team is the place.

Brisbane, Edinburgh or Rome would be more appropriate places to try it out.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I would not be unopposed to this being tried, but I hardly think La Plata against a fired up Pumas team is the place.

Brisbane, Edinburgh or Rome would be more appropriate places to try it out.

Edinburgh is not a happy hunting ground for us.

 

[ACT Crusader]

What is your view on Messam vs Cane then? Who should be on the bench?

Messam is playing his best footy this year and Cane is wet behind the ears. He made the ABs a predominantly a bench option in a good Chiefs loose forward rotation.

Messam is okay, neither brilliant or poor in my eyes. He does his job and that's okay with me also. At this point Cane is the backup bench option IMO.

 

[Dam0]

Edinburgh is not a happy hunting ground for us.

That wasn't the one I was expecting you to put in bold

I know Australia has had some issues with Scotland lately, but they have been our bunnies for a long time and I think a big part of the problem is that deep down they don't believe they can win.

Of slight concern for me is that I think the Pumas might have lost this attitude, and will probably beat us in the next couple of years. Whilst that might be good for the Rugby Championship and world rugby in general, there is something wonderfully fulfilling (for a small minded person like myself) about being able to point to a bunch of countries and say that we have never lost to them.

I don't think it will happen this weekend, but I am not entirely at ease.

 

[Dam0]

What is your view on Messam vs Cane then? Who should be on the bench?

I still have my doubts about Messam. He played very well for the Chiefs and against Ireland, and he made a big impact off the bench against Argentina, but I think he still makes a lot of dumb plays and silly mistakes against the bigger teams. It's probably a bit harsh to call him a flat track bully, but I want to see him play really well against SA/AUS before I am prepared to cement him as the heir to Kaino.

 

[ACR]

snip/.. Of slight concern for me is that I think the Pumas might have lost this attitude, and will probably beat us in the next couple of years. Whilst that might be good for the Rugby Championship and world rugby in general, there is something wonderfully fulfilling (for a small minded person like myself) about being able to point to a bunch of countries and say that we have never lost to them. ..\snip

Same.

I don't think there is much to talk about for this one, the team is much the same and will play the same way. It will be a huge contest and the Argies have a legitimate shot (they should have finished off Australia two weeks ago). Argentina are paying $7.00, worth a dabble? Maybe, maybe not. If the conditions are dry and suitable to expansive play I think the AB's will get home easily enough.