qwerty51
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Fixed
2012 Rugby Championship Round 4 Game 1 New Zealand vs South Africa - 15 Sep
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
- Start date
- Status
Fixed
Bowside
Peter Johnson (47)
I totally agree HJ. NZ are the best at the moment, but they are not untouchable.
They can only play (and beat) the teams that Australia, South Africa, and Argentina field; and at the moment Australia and South Africa are fielding some of the weakest and poorly coached teams they have put out since the start of the professional era.
They can only play (and beat) the teams that Australia, South Africa, and Argentina field; and at the moment Australia and South Africa are fielding some of the weakest and poorly coached teams they have put out since the start of the professional era.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Pretty funny state of affairs when Aussies are talking up the Darkness, and NZers are doing the exact opposite. Tough audience in the Shakey Isles, hard to please.
Maybe it goes to show that one of the finest Canterbury Lambs ever exported to Australia has a few more believers here than are prepared to admit such in public.
Maybe it goes to show that one of the finest Canterbury Lambs ever exported to Australia has a few more believers here than are prepared to admit such in public.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
The Springbok team to face New Zealand in Dunedin is (Test caps in brackets):
15 Zane Kirchner, Vodacom Blue Bulls (18)
14 Bryan Habana, DHL Western Province (80)
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), DHL Western Province (78)
12 Frans Steyn, The Sharks (52)
11 Francois Hougaard, Vodacom Blue Bulls (21)
10 Morné Steyn, Vodacom Blue Bulls (40)
9 Ruan Pienaar, Ulster, N-Ireland (57)
8 Duane Vermeulen, DHL Western Province (1)
7 Willem Alberts, The Sharks (14)
6 Francois Louw, Bath, England (11)
5 Juandré Kruger, Vodacom Blue Bulls (4)
4 Flip van der Merwe, Vodacom Blue Bulls (17)
3 Jannie du Plessis, The Sharks (36)
2 Adriaan Strauss (vice-captain), Toyota FS Cheetahs (15)
1 Tendai Mtawarira, The Sharks (38)
Replacements
16 Tiaan Liebenberg, DHL Western Province (2)
17 Dean Greyling, Vodacom Blue Bulls (2)
18 Andries Bekker, DHL Western Province (26)
19 Marcell Coetzee, The Sharks (6)
20 Johan Goosen, Toyota FS Cheetahs (1)
21 Juan de Jongh, DHL Western Province (10)
22 Pat Lambie, The Sharks (14)
Stats and facts:
• Saturday’s Test will be the 84th between South Africa and New Zealand.
• The Springboks and New Zealand last met in the 2011 Castle Tri-Nations in Port Elizabeth, which was won by South Africa 18-5.
• The Springboks have played eight Test matches against New Zealand in Dunedin, winning only once – at Carisbrook in 2008 (30-28). This will be the first Test for the Springboks at the newly-built Forsyth Barr Stadium.
• With 39 Tests, Morné Steyn is the most capped Springbok flyhalf. He also holds the record for the most career tries in Tests as a flyhalf (7 tries) and is the Springbok record holder for most career points in this tournament (229 points).
• Steyn’s 56 penalty goals are the most by a Springbok in this tournament and he shares the overall record for most career drop goals in the tournament with André Pretorius (4). He needs 17 points to reach 500 career Test points for the Springboks.
• Steyn has scored 109 Test points for the Springboks against New Zealand – the most by any South African. He also holds the record for the most career penalty goals by a Springbok against New Zealand – 28.
• Bryan Habana, who will play in his 30th Test in this competition, is the most-capped Springbok wing (79 Tests) and the South African record holder for the most Test tries, which he extended last weekend against Australia to 42. Bryan needs one try to become South Africa’s top try scorer in the tournament.
• The referee is George Clancy from Ireland, who has refereed in five Tests involving South Africa. The Springboks have won four of those Tests and lost one.
• Springbok Test match records in Dunedin against New Zealand:
o Most points: 12 by Percy Montgomery (3c, 2p) in 2005.
o Most tries: 1 by eight players on nine occasions. Ricky January scored a try on two occasions, his last in the 75th minute of the match in 2008 which enabled the Boks to win their first test in 87 years at Carisbrook.
o Most conversions: 3 by Percy Montgomery in 2005.
o Most penalty goals: 3 by each of André Joubert in 1994 and Percy Montgomery in 2008.
o Most drop goals: 1 by Butch James in 2008.
15 Zane Kirchner, Vodacom Blue Bulls (18)
14 Bryan Habana, DHL Western Province (80)
13 Jean de Villiers (captain), DHL Western Province (78)
12 Frans Steyn, The Sharks (52)
11 Francois Hougaard, Vodacom Blue Bulls (21)
10 Morné Steyn, Vodacom Blue Bulls (40)
9 Ruan Pienaar, Ulster, N-Ireland (57)
8 Duane Vermeulen, DHL Western Province (1)
7 Willem Alberts, The Sharks (14)
6 Francois Louw, Bath, England (11)
5 Juandré Kruger, Vodacom Blue Bulls (4)
4 Flip van der Merwe, Vodacom Blue Bulls (17)
3 Jannie du Plessis, The Sharks (36)
2 Adriaan Strauss (vice-captain), Toyota FS Cheetahs (15)
1 Tendai Mtawarira, The Sharks (38)
Replacements
16 Tiaan Liebenberg, DHL Western Province (2)
17 Dean Greyling, Vodacom Blue Bulls (2)
18 Andries Bekker, DHL Western Province (26)
19 Marcell Coetzee, The Sharks (6)
20 Johan Goosen, Toyota FS Cheetahs (1)
21 Juan de Jongh, DHL Western Province (10)
22 Pat Lambie, The Sharks (14)
Stats and facts:
• Saturday’s Test will be the 84th between South Africa and New Zealand.
• The Springboks and New Zealand last met in the 2011 Castle Tri-Nations in Port Elizabeth, which was won by South Africa 18-5.
• The Springboks have played eight Test matches against New Zealand in Dunedin, winning only once – at Carisbrook in 2008 (30-28). This will be the first Test for the Springboks at the newly-built Forsyth Barr Stadium.
• With 39 Tests, Morné Steyn is the most capped Springbok flyhalf. He also holds the record for the most career tries in Tests as a flyhalf (7 tries) and is the Springbok record holder for most career points in this tournament (229 points).
• Steyn’s 56 penalty goals are the most by a Springbok in this tournament and he shares the overall record for most career drop goals in the tournament with André Pretorius (4). He needs 17 points to reach 500 career Test points for the Springboks.
• Steyn has scored 109 Test points for the Springboks against New Zealand – the most by any South African. He also holds the record for the most career penalty goals by a Springbok against New Zealand – 28.
• Bryan Habana, who will play in his 30th Test in this competition, is the most-capped Springbok wing (79 Tests) and the South African record holder for the most Test tries, which he extended last weekend against Australia to 42. Bryan needs one try to become South Africa’s top try scorer in the tournament.
• The referee is George Clancy from Ireland, who has refereed in five Tests involving South Africa. The Springboks have won four of those Tests and lost one.
• Springbok Test match records in Dunedin against New Zealand:
o Most points: 12 by Percy Montgomery (3c, 2p) in 2005.
o Most tries: 1 by eight players on nine occasions. Ricky January scored a try on two occasions, his last in the 75th minute of the match in 2008 which enabled the Boks to win their first test in 87 years at Carisbrook.
o Most conversions: 3 by Percy Montgomery in 2005.
o Most penalty goals: 3 by each of André Joubert in 1994 and Percy Montgomery in 2008.
o Most drop goals: 1 by Butch James in 2008.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Hang about Paarl, That is what you predicted in the run up to the Perth Test, and we all know the result of that game.
As weak as they may be on paper, Bokke always lift against the old enemy.
More of your mind games?
FrankLind
Colin Windon (37)
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Bekker is in poor form and the aerial type of lock. We need yster like Etsebet or Bakkies against the All Blacks. Pitty Sharpe and Toulon decided otherwise.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
No mind games Boet, Meyer picks of Kirschner and Morne show he still have some way to go before he get rid of his blue underwear. He need a few brick marks in them before he will learn his lesson.
Beating the our biggest rugby rival on saturday will bring more joy then winning the WC trophe for this Springbok supporter. On paper no way, not a chance.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Agree that Morne is a hand brake on your back line running.
I would like to see Goosen and Lambie get some good game time.
They looked very dangerous on Saturday. Alas for the Saffer, they weren't on for long enough.
I would like to see Goosen and Lambie get some good game time.
They looked very dangerous on Saturday. Alas for the Saffer, they weren't on for long enough.
T
tranquility
Guest
Goddamit, that has the makings of a good future backline.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
We have some real talented up and coming midfielders playing CC rugby at the moment.
T
tranquility
Guest
Juan de Jongh would be a starter in Australia. Possibly in a few different positions.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
All Blacks team named, interesting to see Weepu getting starting spot over Aaron Smith, personally not really surprised,may feel Weepu's experience required,but rumours are Smith may of breeched team protocols,also Smith didn't have best game last week, a week off won't kill him. Most interesting to me is Tamati Ellison in reserves ahead of Ben Smith, I a fan of Ellison, but admit to being keen on B Smith too. Also Ben Franks missing bench again is a slight surprise, Whitelock and Messam starting was expected I think, although Retallic made a lot of tackles last week, don't think he carried ball well.
ALL BLACKS: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Piri Weepu, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Charlie Faumuina, Brodie Retallick, Victor Vito, Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, Tamati Ellison.
ALL BLACKS: Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Aaron Cruden, Piri Weepu, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw (c), Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Owen Franks, Andrew Hore, Tony Woodcock. Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Charlie Faumuina, Brodie Retallick, Victor Vito, Aaron Smith, Beauden Barrett, Tamati Ellison.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
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BENCHED: Aaron Smith was not considered for the All Blacks' starting lineup for Saturday night's test against the Springboks after breaking a team-imposed curfew.
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All Blacks
Aaron Smith has had an early reminder of the standards that go along with being an All Black, the young Manawatu halfback benched for Saturday's test against the Springboks for breaking a team recovery protocol.
All Blacks coach Steve Hansen confirmed this morning at the team hotel in Dunedin Smith had been ineligible for a starting role at Dunedin 's covered Forsyth Barr Stadium because of a breach in discipline following last Saturday's test victory over Argentina in the capital.
"Unfortunately for Aaron Smith we've got a strong focus on recovery and he broke a protocol in that area last week, so that made him ineligible for selection for the first XV," said Hansen in announcing a starting lineup featuring four changes.
Veteran No 9 Piri Weepu replaces the 23-year-old at halfback, while the other switches from Wellington see hometown boy Andrew Hore get the start at hooker, Canterbury's Sam Whitelock given the nod in the second row ahead of Brodie Retallick and standout Chiefs loosie Liam Messam restored at No 6.
But it's Smith's demotion, and the reasons for the six-test rookie's relegation, that is the chief talking point ahead of the opening clash for the year against the Springboks.
Hansen refused to spell out whether Smith's indiscretion had been alcohol-related, or involved him breaking curfews.
"There's nothing to elaborate on," said the first-year head coach. "He just broke a protocol that's a non-negotiable and the consequence is you don't start in the XV if you break it."
It's understood Smith's infraction involved him arriving back to the team hotel after Saturday night's game past the team-imposed curfew.
Hansen said it was "irrelevant" whether Smith would have started without his protocol breach. "He broke them, so we don't need to go there. The other fella played pretty good last week as well, and we're very fortunate we've got two good halfbacks.
"We addressed it as a team. The leadership group set the protocol and management drive it."
Asked if Smith, who's been so impressive throughout his freshman campaign, had been disappointed by his actions, the coach could only nod in agreement.
"I don't think he wanted to give up his jersey lightly. It's been dealt with, it's not something that's a major but it was a non-negotiable. It's like your family - if you have rules there are consequences if you break them. That's the way we're living, and we make no excuse for that.
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Personally I really like Smith at 9, but fully agree with him being taught the rules are non negotiable, even if I hearing it a pretty minor breach, the senior members of team set these rules and it helps to make a strong team if everyone has to adhere.
ACR
Desmond Connor (43)
Heard that they switched Ben Smith out for Ellison because he can cover 12 as well, since Carter is out, + there are too many Smith's in the team, we'll turn into Wales if we're not careful. Can't go wrong with either one really. Not too fussed about Aaron Smith being dropped to the bench, I think Piri-Piri will step up this week, he has plenty of doubters to motivate him. Messam deserves the 6 and you can't go wrong promoting Whitelock and Hore.
No excuses for dropped ball this week fellas. Hopefully this will be a fast paced spectacle (while we have the ball anyway). The new stadium has already seen some great matches in the S15, this will be another.
No excuses for dropped ball this week fellas. Hopefully this will be a fast paced spectacle (while we have the ball anyway). The new stadium has already seen some great matches in the S15, this will be another.
T
tranquility
Guest
Tamati Ellison was probably the best 13 in Super Rugby this season. Bit of a weapon really.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
The Lords of Darkness have named a fairly solid lineup.
As Paarl Bok and many others have highlighted, I think the Saffers have missed an opportunity by leaving some very exciting players on the bench. With a Loss and a Draw already, it is time to take some risks, rather than trying to play same old same old.
Good to see a coach and "the leadership group" enforcing consequences of not being a team player and not abiding by team rules on young Smith. This should be a lesson to others as well. Little point in having rules if they are not going to be enforced.
As Paarl Bok and many others have highlighted, I think the Saffers have missed an opportunity by leaving some very exciting players on the bench. With a Loss and a Draw already, it is time to take some risks, rather than trying to play same old same old.
Good to see a coach and "the leadership group" enforcing consequences of not being a team player and not abiding by team rules on young Smith. This should be a lesson to others as well. Little point in having rules if they are not going to be enforced.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Jean is struggling with injury, so we may see JdJ early. He is a better 13 then Jean anyway and is a very good defender. Glad the All Blacks picked Weepu. Flo have a very important test to play.
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