2012 6 Nations

[the plastic paddy]

Still only seen snippets of the Ireland game but I was aghast how scrum was destroyed. Saw one posting where one of the orcs asks Nigel Owens when he is going to show a yellow card to the Irish front row. Owens says 'Don't be silly'

Now far be it for me to criticise a ref but dramatic as it all was, from the bits I have seen it does strike me that Nigel Owens failed to see that on the hit Corbisiero shifts his hips out, the second rows part and his (Corbisiero) 2nd row follows his body angle so he too is angling inwards and they drive straight across the Irish tight head and on to Best. This is why Hartley keeps popping up because his head has nowhere to go. A clue for Owens should have been the angle the scrum crabbed on nearly every drive. For mine, in this crucial aspect the ref was pants.

Anyway, my point is I that front rows have to drive straight and I believe this tactic is illegal Why weren't the Irish complaining to Nige? I am shewer that if POC was on the field he would have been

They were pointing it out but Nig wasn't seeing it so you have to get on with it. Wouldn't have made any difference anyway because Court is a loose head prop who cannot play TH so he was always going to get annihilated. Apparently, Ross was injured at the first scrum so he did fairly well to keep going for half a game. Whether the new Yorker's tactics led to the injury to Ross I don't know but I doubt it. Ireland have relied on one man at 3 for the last 18 months and luck was bound to run out eventually in the most physically gruelling position in the game. The question has to be asked as to when international rugby will go to 23 man panels like every other level of the game? That is not a moan after the event because there isn't another TH in Ireland anyway, we know the rules and knew that a injury to Ross would mean no TH and yet we didn't pick Hagan at 17 who is probably the next best TH in Ireland. My point is more a safety issue: watching Court completely unable to defend himself at scrum time I was relieved to see him still standing after every confrontation. I hope the inevitable change to 23 man panels will not be under taken after a catastrophic injury. Most teams go for a TH at 17 but are there any genuine both side props in other countries?

 

[the plastic paddy]

not named yet

After Fez's loose tongue in the build up to Twickenham I think he would be better off keeping quiet; it was Hartley apparently although what he was biting I don't know. Talking of foul play, Callum Clark who plays for Saints could be looking at a monster ban after deliberately dislocating the arm of Tigers player Hawkins on sunday. Should be a year at least and would not be surprised if the police were called in, un fecking believeable!!!

 

[qwerty51]

What? He deliberately dislocated his arm??? Any reports or footage I can see

 

[Bardon]

Here's the video of it Querty. Clark is the 6, pay close attention to him from the time the whistle blows. I think a year would be getting off lightly for something like this. He'll probably get about 6 months reduced to 4 due to previous good record. No one every seems to get anywhere close to the maximum ban as the trend seems to be start with the minimum and then reduced it even if the player has the worst diciplinary record in the history of the game.

What he did seems like a crazy thing to do but in the last year or so I've seen a lot of the exact same thing happening at rucks, a player applying both arms to one arm of an opposing player and wraping around then pulling in the same manner. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets it's own sub category in the laws similar to eye gouging as it's more serious that other forms of dangerous play or acts contrary to good sportmanship that currently cover misbehaving at rucks and mauls.

 

[Bardon]

As for the biting incident Ferris and a few other Irish players complained to Owens and the game paused for a few minutes. Owens said he didn't see anything and couldn't do anything about it which is fair enough. If this were a HEC game or any other game shown on sky I would expect there to be footage of the incident available showing who did it.

As it's the BBC who do the minimum they can when covering sporting events there may not have been enough cameras there to pick out who did it. Either way would expect to hear news of a citing either today or tomorrow.

There's no room for incidents of either type in the game and handing out soft bans for similar incidents over the last few years has done nothing to stamp it out. Actually it's help create the culture we have now where players aren't as afraid to do stuff like that. On top of this we have the new bread of club head coach who will blatantly defend such behaviour from their players and then complain about the ban being too long when the player gets less than the minimum. Not saying Lancaster as he seems to be a man of principle.

For the biting minimum sanction is 12 weeks maximum is 4 years. What's the bets that if someone is caught for it they get between 10-14 weeks.

 

[Bardon]

Have watched the incident involving Ferris again. It was reported at 27:48 on the game clock, but it seems to happen at a ruck at 27:17. Can't make out the English players involved as the camera switches just as the players are getting up. It looks like Dylan Hartley and one other player I can't make out due to it being the streamed footage rather than uploaded video.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Even worse watching it on bardon's clip, I believe he should be banned out of the game for that and I hope the police are involved as that deserves a prison sentence IMO. And he has got form for being a filthy player. Clark will probably get three weeks.

 

[Bardon]

Watched the Ferris incident serveral time on the RTÉ website now and the other 2 players involved in the ruck where Ferris is bitten are Dickson and Barritt. Both Dickson and Barrett leave the ruck once Ireland move the ball. There's is one England player lying in the ruck on top of Ferris' arm with at least one Irish player trying to drag him off. I can only assume that it's Hartley still there. Would fit his character to a t.

 

[Cardiffblue]

there's a youtube link

the ref's view of the after effects is clear but unfortunately the bbc coverage is not

 

[the plastic paddy]

Excellent reffing from Nig as usual. He was excellent running the line in the France England game as well when he told AR to have a word with Robshaw to get Ashton to calm down. Did Ashton a massive favour because he was losing the head at the time. Nig is an excellent ref, clear to players and crowd/ viewer what he wants. And amazingly consistent IMO. Don't know if it has been mentioned but apparently Ross was injured in the first scrum of the match so England's scrummaging is not quite as dominant as everyone is saying, will be interesting to see how they get on against the saffers in the summer.

 

[Bardon]

English Media are so predictable:

Step 1: At start of 6Ns question Lancaster's ability to coach at international level and say RFU should appoint a coach with more experience.
Step 2: Praise England team to the high heavens for their performance in the 6Ns but especailly in this game.
Step 3: Declare England have possibly the best scrum in the world.
Step 4: Install England as one of the favourites for the next WC.
Step 5: Declare the RFU would be crazy to apoint anyone other than Lancaster.
Step 6: Call for Lancaster to be appointed permanent head coach to lead England to the next WC and glory.
Step 7: All is roses and England have some great talent coming through, Lancaster given 4 year contract.
Step 8: Saffers give England a wake up call during the summer.
Step 9: Rumblings about England's true place in the world pecking order, some criticism of Lancaster.
Step 10: Mixed results in the following months/year.
Step 11: England are now the worst team in the world with no chance of winning the next world cup.
Step 12: Question the lack of foresight on the part of the RFU in giving Lancaster such a long contract.
Step 13: Call for Lancaster to go and to be replaced by any coach who's won anything in the previous year.
Step 14: Lancaster sacked; revert to Step 1 and reset process with the new England head coach.

 

[Dai bando]

Dont know if any one heard the comments from Dallaglio, He said I'm not taking anything away from Wales But England are the team of the tounament, they progressed further than any other team, NO you came second butty, Arrogant twinkle.

 

[Dai bando]

Excellent reffing from Nig as usual. He was excellent running the line in the France England game as well when he told AR to have a word with Robshaw to get Ashton to calm down. Did Ashton a massive favour because he was losing the head at the time. Nig is an excellent ref, clear to players and crowd/ viewer what he wants. And amazingly consistent IMO. Don't know if it has been mentioned but apparently Ross was injured in the first scrum of the match so England's scrummaging is not quite as dominant as everyone is saying, will be interesting to see how they get on against the saffers in the summer.

Corbisero, turns in, once its stoped teams tend to cope with him, Adam Jones handled him very well, But TH is our weakness too, we don't have another.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Corbisero, turns in, once its stoped teams tend to cope with him, Adam Jones handled him very well, But TH is our weakness too, we don't have another.

Adam Jones is the best TH in the world as far as I am concerned. Ross is a very good scrummager, who has handled everything thrown at him but getting injured at the first scrum he didn't have much of a chance. Bardon's post above is spot on though, England beat up a LH playing TH and now they must be favourites for RWC 2015;Dallaglio is such a fecking tool. Hartley cited for biting Stephen Ferris by the way. Should get a few months will probably get a few weeks because of his previously 'good behaviour', citings procedure is an absolute joke!!!!

 

[Larno]

[Edit: just saw plastic paddy's post]

Hartley cited for alleged Ferris bite

ESPNscrum Staff March 19, 2012

Dylan Hartley has been cited for allegedly biting Ireland's Stephen Ferris during England's Six Nations victory at Twickenham on Saturday.

The Northampton hooker will be called before a disciplinary panel to answer the charge and could face a long lay-off if found guilty, having been reported by match commissioner Alberto Recaldini.

Hartley is alleged to have bitten the finger of Ferris in the 23rd minute of England's 30-9 triumph. Biting carries a low-end entry point of a 12-week suspension, with 18 weeks for mid-range offences and 24-plus weeks at the top end in the International Rugby Board (IRB) disciplinary sanctions table. The most stringent ban is four years, and Hartley is unable to play until his hearing.

"England hooker Dylan Hartley has been cited following the Six Nations match between England and Ireland at Twickenham on Saturday for an alleged biting offence," a Six Nations statement read.
"The independent Six Nations citing commissioner for the match, Alberto Recaldini (Italy), cited the England player under IRB Law 10.4(m), "Acts contrary to good sportsmanship", for allegedly biting the finger of an opponent in the 23rd minute of the first-half.

"The player's hearing will be held by an independent Six Nations disciplinary committee at a date to be confirmed."
If Hartley is banned, he could be ruled out of England's three-Test tour to South Africa in June and the Rugby Football Union (RFU) has already confirmed that no further comment will be made until the hearing is completed.
Hartley does not boast a clean sheet in terms of disciplinary action and was banned for 26 weeks in 2007 after being found guilty of gouging during a Premiership game.

© ESPN EMEA Ltd

Quelle suprise!

 

[Cardiffblue]

My 2012 underperformers XV. From poor to dirty via stupid

15: Poitrenaud
14: Ashton
13: De Luca
12: D'Arsey
11: Bergamasco
10: Burton
9: Dickson
8: Heaslip
7: SOB
6: Croft
5: B Davies
4: Lawes
3: Court -
2: Hartley
1: Healy

Bench:
16: Ford
17: Stevens
18: DOC
19: Dowson
20: Cussiter
21: Parks
22: Rougerie

 

[Bardon]

I'd had Botes to that list but since it's underperformers maybe not as he hasn't proven he can play above that level in an international.

 

[the plastic paddy]

Does that mean Healy doesnt have to get fucked up on your shitty Lions tour? Ps please can Fatland pick heaps and Dorce then the whole enterprise will be doomed and we can get rid of it.

 

[Cardiffblue]

I'd had Botes to that list but since it's underperformers maybe not as he hasn't proven he can play above that level in an international.

Thought of including Botes.

 

[Cardiffblue]

Does that mean Healy doesnt have to get fucked up on your shitty Lions tour? Ps please can Fatland pick heaps and Dorce then the whole enterprise will be doomed and we can get rid of it.

The Lions tour has got us worried too. If gatland goes along wth Edwards were left in the same situation as GH went- up the creek