2012 6 Nations

[Sully]

Making a complete mockery of my front page article:

Wales call up Stephen Jones into Six Nations squad

Wales have called veteran fly-half Stephen Jones into their Six Nations training squad.

Article here.

 

[spooony]

Since no one wants to mention the Italians I will.

Italy squad for the 2012 RBS 6 Nations: Martin Castrogiovanni, Lorenzo Cittadini, Alberto De Marchi, Andrea Lo Cicero, Leonardo Ghiraldini, Tommaso D'Apice, Marco Bortolami, Quintin Geldenhuys, Antonio Pavanello, Cornelius Van Zyl, Robert Barbieri, Mauro Bergamasco, Paul Derbyshire, Simone Favaro, Sergio Parisse, Alessandro Zanni, Edoardo Gori, Fabio Semenzato, Kristopher Burton, Luciano Orquera, Tommaso Benvenuti, Gonzalo Canale, Luca Morisi, Alberto Sgarbi, Angelo Esposito, Roberto Quartaroli, Giulio Toniolatti, Giovanbattista Venditti, Andrea Masi, Luke McLean.

Experienced players like Salvatore Perugini, Carlos Del Fava, Mirco Bergamasco and Gonzalo Garcia were surprisingly left out of the squad, with Brunel opting to include uncapped youngsters Alberto De Marchi, Luca Morisi, Angelo Esposito and Giovanbattista Venditti instead.
Aironi flanker Mauro Bergamasco returns to the squad having missed last year's entire tournament with a shoulder injury.

There's a couple of exotic Italian surnames in there like Van Zyl, Geldenhuys, Derbyshire, Burton, McLean.............

 

[Dai bando]

P,P, What happened in 87. The welsh players left because the then WRU would not listen to advice given by senior players that just came back from the WC and a tour of NZ, which was up till then Wales greatest defeats.
Unlike now once a player went to league he could no longer play in the union code, 15 players went to league or the term used here was "Gone North". Welsh rugby was devastated here we were a small country with no real strength in depth and all but two players from the first team were gone, Robert Jones and Eian Evans the only two to stay.
Gatlands policy has been one that NZ use, you dont play in the country you might not get picked, that cant happen now, has as been pointed out many of the Welsh team are either playing in France or wish to do so.
I despair of Welsh rugby once again.

 

[spooony]

If I was a selector in my country I would ask the following
Would I pick a player playing in the Northern Hemisphere? No
Would I pick one playing in the Super 15 irrespective if its NZ, Aus or in SA? Yes

Why because you see his form the same as you would see it if he played in the country. Plus higher standards. Same should apply in the Northern Hemisphere just vice versa as I stated above.

 

[Lee Grant]

Oz has the same rules as NZ basically. They have to play for Oz Super teams or at least come back to play here in time to be considered.

The trouble for Wales, Scotland and Ireland is that other rugby nations, especially France, are so close to home. If an Oz player leaves for Europe, so far away, it is usually Goodnight and Good Luck. Now and then a player just plays a year or two and comes back, like Elsom, but most of them don't play for the Wallabies again.

We thought we would lose a lot more players than we did because Aussie players over there like travelling over Europe in the summer, and experiencing a different lifestyle for a while. But the strong Aus $$$, and more stringent national union requirements to use local players, are keeping some at home.

 

[Sully]

Interesting article from Paul Ackford in the Telegraph. He picked England for fifth.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru...am-by-team-guide-to-the-2012-Six-Nations.html

 

[Lee Grant]

Thanks for posting that link Sully; enjoyed it.

I think the rankings are almost right on the money though England have so many new players some of them could make a difference - though we don't now who. I'm going against Ackford and think that England will beat Scotland and end up 4th. Kelly Brown is a big loss for the Scots. Wales 3rd ranking could be under fire also with their injuries.

Everyone is assuming that France will play as well as they did in the 2nd half against NZ in the RWC final - but they could play the same as in some other RWC games.

But I'm the world's worst tipster; so don't take any notice.

 

[Sully]

I know England have all new everything, but 5th just seemed wrong. Do you think the Italians can snatch a win with their new coach?

 

[qwerty51]

I don't think 5th is wrong or out of the question, it should just require Scotland winning because I can't see them toppling Wales, France and Ireland.

 

[spooony]

The english press always play their players down so that they can sell newspapers when they do well.

 

[Dai bando]

""The english press always play their players down so that they can sell newspapers when they do well.""​

Not true Spooony, England come second and they're world beaters in the press's eyes,​

English rugby is on a genuine downer, Mallett takes over next year I think , then things will start to change, I rate Mallett, Wish we had him.​

 

[fatprop]

Good article

England bravehearts must invade the enemy

Graham Henry
New Zealand Coach
about 7 hours ago
England has a backline, but they will never fulfill their potential unless the team can win quick ball. This needs a total change of policy for the Six Nations. England must go to Murrayfield and stick it to the opposition. They have to smash the Scottish forwards past the ball instead of conservatively stopping at the tackled player in order to secure possession.
We want quick ball in New Zealand and so we concentrate on dominating the space beyond the ball carrier. We want our supporting players to get under the opposition and to move them backwards. We flood past the ball to create good possession for our strike runners.
At national level and at club level English teams are far too worried about securing possession. They are obsessed with sealing off the ball carrier. The English teams are paranoid that an opponent might steal the ball and so everyone jams on the brakes and seals off possession. It is fearful and often illegal.
Okay, so the opposition can’t get at the ball, but there is no dynamic forward momentum and nobody is being shifted out of the defensive line. No wonder England had trouble scoring tries against the better teams at the World Cup.
A country with over a million players should be the best team in the world and England’s potential in the backs is as good as it has ever been. Ben Foden’s a good player, Chris Ashton is a handful and Delon Armitage has always impressed me. But how frustrated those players must get in a white shirt. England has top drawer attacking players and they are seldom used.
Ben Youngs can also break teams up. Charlie Hodgson is a good navigator and made his mark when he came to New Zealand with the Lions in 2005. Manu Tuilagi is green but when he comes back from injury, he will prove himself to be a very good footballer. He has that explosiveness. It sometimes seems that England are World Champions at wasting talent.
This has to reflect club policy because English conservatism around the tackle is an attitude that appears to be ingrained in most of the players. Saracens are England’s leading qualifiers in the Heineken Cup but few expect them to win the competition with a game that is as petrified as England’s efforts at the World Cup.
In 2003 an Australian paper ignorantly taunted Jonny Wilkinson’s England with the headline “Is that all you’ve got.” England proved in the lead-up to that tournament that they could play rugby in many different ways. That legacy seems to have died.
The England winning World Cup team had players like Martin Johnson and Richard Hill who were expert at cleaning out opponents beyond the ball. What has happened since? England and the English clubs play a game based on fear and a generation of promising backs are dying on their feet.
That has to change.
http://www.therugbysite.com/community/107-england-bravehearts-must-invade-the-enemy-by-graham-henry

 

[daz]

Lancaster's reign is already looking a bit like Brian Ashton's. Plenty of good ideas will be implemented and lots of new guys blooded but no matter what he does there's someone else in the wings they have lined up to take over.

As I have mentioned previously, I have come to the surprising realisation that I like Stuart Lancaster. I like what he says about rugby, the grass-roots/common sense mentality he embraces and the values he teaches. But a successful Lancaster means a successful England, and that is not permitted under the Natural Law's of, well, the universe....

The best outcome for me is that Lancaster is not surprisingly dudded by the RFU after the 6N, but with his reputation intact, and he goes on to win a Grand Slam with another NH nation.

The RFU further implodes and the English rugby team is relegated to the 2nd tier European tournaments, alongside Romania and Georgia....

Hey, a man can dream, can't he..?

 

[daz]

In 2003 an Australian paper ignorantly taunted Jonny Wilkinson’s England with the headline “Is that all you’ve got.” England proved in the lead-up to that tournament that they could play rugby in many different ways.

Jeez Grumpy 'Enry, you are not a coach anymore and the old trans-Tasman rivalry thing has been handed to another Kiwi to play with.

Still not over that 2003 semi-final yet? Is the 2011 medal not good enough?

You just can't let it go, can you?

 

[the plastic paddy]

P,P, What happened in 87. The welsh players left because the then WRU would not listen to advice given by senior players that just came back from the WC and a tour of NZ, which was up till then Wales greatest defeats.
Unlike now once a player went to league he could no longer play in the union code, 15 players went to league or the term used here was "Gone North". Welsh rugby was devastated here we were a small country with no real strength in depth and all but two players from the first team were gone, Robert Jones and Eian Evans the only two to stay.
Gatlands policy has been one that NZ use, you dont play in the country you might not get picked, that cant happen now, has as been pointed out many of the Welsh team are either playing in France or wish to do so.
I despair of Welsh rugby once again.

Unfortunately, the WRFU cannot buy spectators for the regions for love nor money hence the salary cap and players going elsewhere to make hay during their short careers. There are generally more supporters at one irish provincial game than at all 4 Welsh regional game. Swansea and Cardiff going so well in the kick war doesn't help either.

 

[Bardon]

Armitage has been booted out of the England Saxons squad due to being arrested with regard to an assault on Saturday night/Sunday morning. Good to see Lancaster still taking quick and decisive disciplinary action. It's going to take him a while to change the culture left after MJ and with only the 6Ns a zero tollerence policy is the way to go.

 

[Bardon]

Chris Robshaw has been appointed England captain for their 1st two games against Scotland & Italy.

 

[Bardon]

IRELAND Training Squad (v Wales, 2012 RBS 6 Nations):
Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Keith Earls (Young Munster/Munster)
Stephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
Chris Henry (Ballymena/Ulster)
Denis Hurley (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Shane Jennings (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
David Kearney (Lansdowne/Leinster) *
Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster)
Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
Ronan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
Eoin O'Malley (Old Belvedere/Leinster) *
Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster)
Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Jonathan Sexton (St. Mary's College/Leinster)
Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)
Dan Tuohy (Ballymena/Ulster)
Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster)
Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht) *
Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) *
* Denotes uncapped player

 

[Lee Grant]

Chris Robshaw has been appointed England captain for their 1st two games against Scotland & Italy.

No great surprise: he is a natural captain, but if Lancaster puts his hands on his heart he couldn't say Robshaw would otherwise be a guaranteed a starting spot in the first two games. Croft was a possibility but he doesn't captain his club. With Wood out the other choice was Hartley who is a good leader but is petulant with referees.

The next bit of news should be what position Robshaw is going to play. Another question is who of the notters is going to play 8 as it is unlikely that the inexperienced Morgan will be chosen and he is the only specialist.

I would not be averse to his being chosen there as he is the future long term England no.8 IMO, but there is so much inexperience in the team that I suspect that Lancaster will get one of the notter hard heads to play the position - maybe even Robshaw himself, though he plays there seldom for his club.

 

[qwerty51]

I think Wood will be captain once he is fit.

Bardon, any idea on a possible Ireland 22 for Wales?