2011 Team Of The Tournament

[Braveheart81]

I'd be adding

14. Alesana Tuilagi (SAM)
Bench. Michael Leitch (JAP) my next best flanker after Kleeburger and Clever. He has been superb for Japan. Possibly deserves to oust one of them for a starting spot.
Bench. Sona Taumalolo (TON) reserve prop.

 

[Antony]

Chrysander Botha is in there for sure. He's on the bench if Paul Williams is starting, but is there an argument that Williams is no longer 'emerging'? He's been pretty great for a while. It's kind of like saying that Rupeni Caucau was emerging in 2003 just because Fiji wasn't great (except not at all like that, because Rupeni is a freak).

 

[tigerland12]

I wouldn't put any Samoan players in there. They are all full-time professionals and Samoa are no longer a lower tier country. Same can be said for Fiji, with most of their players being professional.

 

[Richo]

I would have Kleeberger at 7 over Clever and instead put Clever at 6 (he's played there before and is probably more suited to 6...he is a big unit)

Notwithstanding my original misnumbering, I would put Kleeberger at 6 and Clever at 7. These are the positions they've been playing in the tournament. I wouldn't be surprised to see the bearded Canadian get picked up by somewhere better than Rotherham, btw.

 

[light]

Yeah, Williams might face the axe soon as he has been around for a while, I don't think Cudmore qualifies either Tigerland.

BH, I don't think Tuilagi is emerging anymore, he's quite big over in Europe and was expected to be a handful for the Wallabies in the game where he destroyed Rod Davies career. To see him playing well this tournament is no surprise but I think we could find more 'emerging' talents. I really liked Endo from Japan, little guy but bloody fast.

In response to the Islander qualifications, I think we should try avoid their wingers and backs in general, most have been around a while and are contracted either in Europe or the SH. Their forwards on the other hand seem relatively new, particularly the Fijian lock who I think has been a revelation. Samoan #9 was known well before the WC to anyone who followed super rugby but I think he's now proving himself to be of international standard, something that you love to see from players of minnow nations. His performance probably warrants selection and I would still consider him to be 'emerging' still, primarily due to his age and lack of experience before now.

I'll update the team now, there's been a fair few contributors, anyone against changing the qualification to 3 and 5 votes respectively just so the team isn't decided by tonight before the final games?

 

[Braveheart81]

I get that Tuilagi is hardly an emerging player anymore, but what is the qualification for this smaller nations' teams? I think it has to be country based rather than player based.

Surely we either have to include all Samoan players or none of them, otherwise it is too subjective (obviously this is entirely subjective already but we have to clearly define it somehow).

Kahn Fotuali'i plays for the Crusaders. How is he emerging?

Are we selecting out of any teams that don't make the finals? Or possibly only the bottom two teams in each pool?

Gorgodze plays Top 14 rugby. You could argue that he isn't emerging either.

 

[light]

We are selecting from teams that don't progress from the pool stages... at least I think.

I was going more so from an experience and previous recognition angle as that seems the better judge of how a player is doing rather than what team they have previously played for. Fotuali'i plays Crusaders but has little experience, Cudmore plays in Europe and is quite well known, the idea being that it is 'emerging' players who have never really taken our eye before now.

You are right however, it is time to draw a line in the sand. I think we have to exclude all teams that progress from the pool stages and players who have played at previous world cups (i.e starters, they can qualify for this team if they were in the squad and played little game time/didn't do anything special anyway). I think previous recognition of their talent is the most important thing, if they have been running around playing club rugby for years and come into a weak team and score all of the points, they should not be considered 'emerging'.

And with this, all Samoan players are excluded due to group progression rule. Not that any players from the Top 10 nations have been mentioned, but I think we can also exclude any players from nations in the top 10, most of these nations will be progressing anyway and those that don't, the majority of their players are signed professionals.

Happy to keep Gorgodze, the majority of us did not know him before this tournament and he fits all other qualifications easily.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Anybody mentioned Pritchard from Canada? He's awesome.

I myself don't get the Todd Clever love - I think it's just the long hair makes him noticable, but I'm not convined he really adds that much value to the US

 

[antipodean]

We aren't even out of the pool stage yet.

 

[Jnor]

Thanks.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Totally forgot about Burger. he is absolutely incredible. he should be playing super 15 for an SA team.
boot Clever out of the starting XV and have him on the bench. he could fill 6,7, or 8 as a super sub.

I think Clever is best in open play. I'm not sure i rate him in the tight stuff as much. but he's more visible in the open play, hence the votes.

I would go carpenter at 8 for his better ball handling than gorgodze but i would want gorgodze at lock (can he be lifted though??)

9. The tongan 9 has looked pretty effective with ball in hand at time. not sure about his passing though.

I'd have Danie van wyk at 12 with DTH at 13.

 

[antipodean]

Thanks.

You're welcome, but I can't say I'm surprised in a thread titled Team of the Tournament people are already throwing up nominations.

 

[light]

Antipodean, the only discussion taking place right now is over the 'emerging team'. Which is made up of players who are not part of teams progressing, perhaps we are calling it a little too early but I think most people have a general idea on who's progressing. If you refer to page one you will see the "Team of the Tournament" is being left till after the final.

Edit: have updated votes, will not be bolding any players till we get more of a consensus.

 

[Bullrush]

9. The tongan 9 has looked pretty effective with ball in hand at time. not sure about his passing though.

Taniela Moa? He played for the Blues for a few seasons and then the Chiefs I think.

As a Blues fan, I couldn't have been happier when we signed Mathewson and Smylie. And now Weepu

 

[antipodean]

Antipodean, the only discussion taking place right now is over the 'emerging team'.

Yes I'm aware what you're trying to do, thanks.

Taniela Moa? He played for the Blues for a few seasons and then the Chiefs I think

WTF were the Chiefs thinking?

BTW Mamuka Gorgodze has played for Montpellier for years.

 

[Lee Grant]

Looks like this thread has branched out.

Folks should make it clear if they are voting for a Team of the Tournament or the Emerging Team. I am loathe to start yet another thread as my purpose has been to limit the number of them.

Let's see how it goes - making it clear.

 

[tigerland12]

Heinz Koll, the lock from Namibia has had a few very good games. His try tonight was brilliant.

 

[Hawko]

Anybody mentioned Pritchard from Canada? He's awesome.

I myself don't get the Todd Clever love - I think it's just the long hair makes him noticable, but I'm not convined he really adds that much value to the US

I agree. And to add to my dislike he often tackles late or dirty, sometimes both.

 

[light]

Kleeburger getting on the wrong side of the errors count against the Japanese but I can see what you guys like about him. Alridge playing well, Endo shaping up as the winger for the 'emerging team'. Carpenter and DTH are brutal, DTH in particular, he would have to make most Super 15 teams.

Thoughts?

 

[light]

God, there's some serious competition for the #12 jersey in this team. Nonu looked the early favourite but Berrick Barnes, Jordie Roberts and pre-injured Frans Steyn have really come home strong. Scottish 12 has been good too, guess the finals will be make or break for the majority of these players.

Putting out my top 3 nominations in each spot now, should be able to cut these down after the finals.
1. Roncero (ARG), Mtawarira (RSA), Perenise (SAM)
2. du Plessis (RSA), Schwalger (SAM), Servat (FRA)
3. Castrogiovanni (ITA), Murray (SCO), Figallo (ARG)
4. Rossouw (RSA), Albacete (ARG), Leo (SAM)
5. O'Connell (IRE), Pape (FRA), Cudmore (CAN)
6. Kaino (NZL), Brussouw (RSA), O'Brien (IRE)
7. Pocock (AUS), Warburton (WAL), Burger (NAM)
8. Parisse (ITA), Felatau (WAL), Gresev (RUS)
9. Yachvilli (FRA), Fotuali'i (SAM), Youngs (ENG)
10. O'Gara (IRE), Monro (CAN), Steyn (RSA)
11. Clerc (FRA), North (WAL), Ashton (ENG)
12. Nonu (NZL), Barnes (AUS), Roberts (WAL),
13. Fourie (RSA), Bill-Williams (NZL), VD Merwe (CAN), Lamont (SCO)
14. Kahui (NZL), Tuilagi (SAM), O'Connor (AUS)
15. Williams (SAM), Dagg (NZL), Amorosino (ARG)