2011 RWC - What we'll be facing

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

Despite being overly excited like a little kid for the WC, i've also been following a bit of the HC, and im sure you'll all know of O'Brien. On the Bob Dwyer forum a few people were calling him the best player in the world currently. Perhaps thats a bit of overhype - but he is without doubt one of the best, if not the best backrow player in the world currently. He's the size of Brussow, has the speed of McCaw/Burger in their most on form days - and puts in tackles like Pocock.

Here's the Irish backrow we'll be facing in the WC.

Rocky Vs O'Brien

Pocock Vs Ferris

Palu Vs Heaslip

Mouthwatering to say the least?


Heres a Youtube clip showing them in action.

[video=youtube;KUQ2Wt1mSKg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUQ2Wt1mSKg[/video]

 

[Gagger]

O'Brien was my MoM on the weekend

 

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

O'Brien was my MoM on the weekend

He's scarily fast. He runs over more people than cars do in Europe by the looks of it - The best bit about his game is his offloading. Not only does he always break the gain line, by atleast 5 meters, he almost always offloads and sends another Irish runner or another one of their backrow speedsters towards the line.

Ireland are my darkhorses for the WC. They dont fear us, they dont seem to fear the Boks - The AB's are their bogey team however. I've put a bet on them at 18/1 (£). Amazing odds for a powerhouse team. Even though the odds are probably justified given their poor WC record so far.

 

[Joe Mac]

There's only one remedy for the Sean O'Brian bollocking run. Its a TPN torpedo tackle... As Jerry Collins (video 1- 36 seconds in) or the Springboks (Video 2- 0-40 seconds) can tell you...

[video=youtube;1EIuZol3BRQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EIuZol3BRQ[/video]
[video=youtube;XZo1DX7SlMg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZo1DX7SlMg[/video]

 

[fatprop]

They look good players, but the SH sides are a bit more used to dealing with big, fast mobile backrowers than many of the NH teams, especially on fast hard tracks.

I can think of Vito, Messam, Higginbotham, Palu, Alberts, Manu, Spies, Kankowski & Burger as big powerful units the SH players deal with weekly

 

[farva]

I hope he is as good as the hype, because that will make for a great matchup with pocock.

But call me cynical, but much like super rugby, form in the HCup doesnt mean they will maintain that level on the international stage.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

Desperately hoping TPN can stay fit for wc.

 

[TheNextBigThing]

The key to TPN's fitness will be whether he continues to make those kind of reckless tackles. If he is the main strike weapon, expected to stop every hard running backrower, he won't last the 3N let alone the World Cup.

 

[Riptide]

It's unlikely that you will see this trio in action for Ireland in the WC as it would be an unbalanced backrow Leinster's O'Brien (SOB) and Ulster's Ferris are both best suited to the 6 position. Ferris may not even take part in the WC. He has had several knee operations and has no cartilage left in one knee. His career will almost certainly be cut short due to chronic knee problems, which is a massive pity as he is a physical freak and truly a sensationally destructive force. IMO, he is the best 6 in the NH when fit. Nobody clears out a breakdown better that Ferris.

SOB was just voted European Player of the Year. He is a ball of muscle, and power, and arguably the NH's premier back row ball carrier, but he is not a 7. His stated preference is to play 6 where he can be more of a ball carrier and his emergence in Dublin owes much to the departure of Rocky Elsom back to Aus. It should also be noted that Leinster's performance against Toulouse and Northampton in the semi-final and final respectively was boosted when SOB was shifted to 6 from 7 freeing him up to be more of a ball carier and to accomodate the better ground game of open-side Jennings in the 2nd half. McLaughlin had been selected at 6 because of his superior lineout threat.

Declan Kidney is a very conservative coach and selector. With Ferris out for the 6N campaign, he selected SOB at his preferred 6 position, Heaslip at 8 and Munster's 35 yr old Wallace at 7. This is how I see Ireland going against Australia. If Ferris is healthy, SO will come off the bench.

 

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

Im telling you - i've been watching both the S15 and H.C. this year. SOB is streets ahead of any SH backrow (In terms of agility, raw speed and acceleration - and hand off and offloading skills; Alright at turnovers but not a turnover machine like Pocock, Richie or Brussow)

Its unlikely they will get a big tackle on SOB - for one main reason. His technique isnt just running into someone. He crouches down so low so that its hard to get a grip on his legs, and almost forms a shield around his hips by crouching when going into the contact as his forearms and knee's comebine to cover the area. Might be hard to understand that - you need to see him in action. I've yet to see him been driven back. Lets not forget, the Tuilagi brothers, Chabal, the physicality of teams like Clermont and Toulouse couldnt drive him back.

The way to stop the danger is to cover the support channels and prevent the all so dangerous offload. Pocock is a master at getting that tackle in out of nowhere to stop that. Thats where he'd be needed.

To illustrate how good the guy is - I'd rather have him on my team than McCaw. I'd rather have Heaslip too. Jesis i hope theres no kiwi's on these forums!! raying:

 

[Riptide]

Im telling you - i've been watching both the S15 and H.C. this year. SOB is streets ahead of any SH backrow (In terms of agility, raw speed and acceleration - and hand off and offloading skills; Alright at turnovers but not a turnover machine like Pocock, Richie or Brussow)

Its unlikely they will get a big tackle on SOB - for one main reason. His technique isnt just running into someone. He crouches down so low so that its hard to get a grip on his legs, and almost forms a shield around his hips by crouching when going into the contact as his forearms and knee's comebine to cover the area. Might be hard to understand that - you need to see him in action. I've yet to see him been driven back. Lets not forget, the Tuilagi brothers, Chabal, the physicality of teams like Clermont and Toulouse couldnt drive him back.

The way to stop the danger is to cover the support channels and prevent the all so dangerous offload. Pocock is a master at getting that tackle in out of nowhere to stop that. Thats where he'd be needed.

To illustrate how good the guy is - I'd rather have him on my team than McCaw. I'd rather have Heaslip too. Jesis i hope theres no kiwi's on these forums!! raying:

That's a bold statement for sure. The weaknesses in SOB's game is that 1) he doesn't really have a Test level ground/pilfering game and if Ireland play him at 7, that'll be a problem for them and 2) his puts in huge hits in defense but his accuracy lets him down on occasion; he can over run plays (more so than Pocock)

 

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

That's a bold statement for sure. The weaknesses in SOB's game is that 1) he doesn't really have a Test level ground/pilfering game and if Ireland play him at 7, that'll be a problem for them and 2) his puts in huge hits in defense but his accuracy lets him down on occasion; he can over run plays (more so than Pocock)

That too''s a bold statement. He's second (Or might be first after the N'Hampton game) in the tackling stats by some distance. He's missed something like three tackles all tournament. Missed two against N'Hampton - But havent seen him really miss a tackle apart from that. He still plays really well at 7, it's just that the backrow isnt balanced and he can't perform to his best in that respect. When he's allowed to run free and not caught up in rucks he's deadly. Decent in rucks but with his speed and power he has to run. If Lomu played in the backrow...



- And also - He defo does have test level ability. Did you see the 6N's? He ripped Scotland to shreds (Ironically a team that beat up only 2 years ago) on his own in the second half. He was a savage against England. He was quiet against Italy and France in the first two games - but they were O'Briens second and third caps for the team. He looks a much more settled player. And lets face it - if he can demolish the defences of Toulouse, Leicester, Munster, etc (Teams id back to beat Wales, Scotland, Italy and give the power 6 of rugby a run for their money) - and be voted ERC player of the tournament - he can certainly cut it at test level!

 

[Riptide]

When SOB is playing 7, it takes away from the strongest part of his game.. that as a ball carrier.

 

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

Yeah true. He is much more caught up in other roles at 7.

I wonder how 6)Ferris 7)? 8)O'Brien would work. He played eight when Heaslip was injured earlier in the season and was just as destructive.

But how can you drop Heaslip out? He and Parisse battle it out for the best No.8 in the world. Ireland have some backrow to tinker with. I suspect that they'll alternate the backrow in the pool till they meet us to give them all time and prevent overworking players. Really, really, really want to see Ferris and O'Brien play together. Would of loved to have seen the 09 Rocky with O'Brien playing together. Sadly that looks like it will never happen less a Baa Baa's call up happens.

 

[Riptide]

Yeah true. He is much more caught up in other roles at 7.

I wonder how 6)Ferris 7)? 8)O'Brien would work. He played eight when Heaslip was injured earlier in the season and was just as destructive.

But how can you drop Heaslip out? He and Parisse battle it out for the best No.8 in the world. Ireland have some backrow to tinker with. I suspect that they'll alternate the backrow in the pool till they meet us to give them all time and prevent overworking players. Really, really, really want to see Ferris and O'Brien play together. Would of loved to have seen the 09 Rocky with O'Brien playing together. Sadly that looks like it will never happen less a Baa Baa's call up happens.

The Irish backrow will be taken out of the game if Ross is given a going over like he was in the first half last Sat. It should not take a test quality prop a complete half to come to terms with his opposite number. If Ireland go with O'Gara at 10 (nothing would surprise me wrt to Kidney's conservative game plan and selections), Ferris might be a better option for that tighter, more territorial game. Ferris monsters people in close. Injury really has robed the game of a player who would have been a "super-star" in the game by now. However, SOB is a better link man if the more expansive game is chosen (i.e. Sexton).

Ireland's defense under Kiss has sought to keep attacking players off the ground with double teams at the point of tackle. It's effective against a bish-bosh English midfield, where scrums are often won, but the scrum must be strong. A strong Irish scrum transforms the team's options and brings their backrow more into play where Heaslip really creates probems. Heaslip has a huge work rate, great hands and supports his 7 superbly.

 

[Joe Mac]

I think some of these comments arent realistic. There are some phenomenal No 6's out there at the moment, as is there some outstanding number 8's.

Its pretty hard to go past Adam Thompson as the World's no1 6 same with Liam Messam. A backrow for the AB's of Thompson, McCaw, & Read scares the shit out of me. Especcially having Messam and Kaino coming off the bench... The only weakness I can see in the AB's pack is line-out options...

SOB is obviously a phenomenal talent and I agree he has more than what it takes to make it at test level, but until he plays the big teams (ie SA, Aus and NZ) it would be hard to rate him the World's No 1. Agree that Ireland do seem to be shaping up as a bogey team for the WC though.

Out of interest, was he in the Irish team that toured Aus last year?

 

[Balls_SlanderandRuck]

I think some of these comments arent realistic. There are some phenomenal No 6's out there at the moment, as is there some outstanding number 8's.

Its pretty hard to go past Adam Thompson as the World's no1 6 same with Liam Messam. A backrow for the AB's of Thompson, McCaw, & Read scares the shit out of me. Especcially having Messam and Kaino coming off the bench... The only weakness I can see in the AB's pack is line-out options...

SOB is obviously a phenomenal talent and I agree he has more than what it takes to make it at test level, but until he plays the big teams (ie SA, Aus and NZ) it would be hard to rate him the World's No 1. Agree that Ireland do seem to be shaping up as a bogey team for the WC though.

Out of interest, was he in the Irish team that toured Aus last year?

Dont think so - I dont remember their team but i do remember it being like a second string or third string team we played against though with a few first teamers like BOD. If he did play im sure we'd of remembered it - and im fairly sure i heard the commentators on the 6N saying 'O'briens got his first starting cap' during the italy game a few months back - so i doubt it.


I know its all speculation - But i think this guy is better than Messam or any other 6's out there. But thats my opinion - each to our own i guess. Roll on November.

 

[Scotty]

They look good players, but the SH sides are a bit more used to dealing with big, fast mobile backrowers than many of the NH teams, especially on fast hard tracks.

I can think of Vito, Messam, Higginbotham, Palu, Alberts, Manu, Spies, Kankowski & Burger as big powerful units the SH players deal with weekly

Yep. Epsom was talked about in the nh as worlds best during is Leinster stint. Put him in test match rugby vs sa and nz and in reality he is struggling to be best in his position let alone best in world overall.

 

[Scotty]

Yeah true. He is much more caught up in other roles at 7.

I wonder how 6)Ferris 7)? 8)O'Brien would work. He played eight when Heaslip was injured earlier in the season and was just as destructive.

But how can you drop Heaslip out? He and Parisse battle it out for the best No.8 in the world. Ireland have some backrow to tinker with. I suspect that they'll alternate the backrow in the pool till they meet us to give them all time and prevent overworking players. Really, really, really want to see Ferris and O'Brien play together. Would of loved to have seen the 09 Rocky with O'Brien playing together. Sadly that looks like it will never happen less a Baa Baa's call up happens.

Ireland vs aus is their second game. Both teams will be playing their top teams in the first and second games.

 

[Lee Grant]

Oz have had the wood on Ireland in the RWC to date. The 1991 Quarter Final had an historic ending and the 2003 pool game was scarcely less exciting as David Humphries only just missed a droppie with a couple of minutes to go and Ireland lost by 1 point. The 1999 game was a close run thing for a while also.


It could be their turn this year: Ireland rugby is on the rise.


Ireland started slowly in the 6N in2011 but finished with a hiss and a roar and thrashed England in the last round. They lost two games but scored 3 tries to two against France in losing by 3, and could have won that had not their hooker stuffed up before the bell. Then they suffered two egregious incidents against Wales who won by 6. One incident was when Wales got a try from a quick throw-in with the “wrong” ball. They “could have, should have”, got another Slam.


Before and after that Leinster became the strongest club in Europe and some of their players are at the top of their game.


From this side of the world we have noticed two main drawbacks to the Ireland team: the fading of their experienced flyhalf ROG and their scrum.


New flyhalf Sexton had a few demons in 6N but he has matured into a considerable player and he brought Leinster home in the 2nd half of the HC Final to add to the other fine performances for his club during the season


In Mike Ross Ireland now have a good THP to replace Hayes, who was never a great scrummager at his best. He had problems against Tongahu'ia in the first half of the HC final last week but the big Tongan was allowed to bore in all the time and you could see his arse sticking out sideways all the time - but the referee was Romain Poite, as he knew. Ross sorted things out after oranges though. Their LHP Healey is not as good a scrummager but makes up for it around the pack.


POC of is one of the finest locks in the world on his day and the competition for the backrow from a small pool of pro players is extraordinary. 8. Heaslip and 7. Wallace are well-known, but the rise of hard running 6. O'Brien, voted the best player in Europe, has been outstanding.


He got three Man Of The Match Awards during the Heineken Cup : one as a 6, one as a 7 and one as an 8 – and I can't work out why folks can't tackle him. He was in the 6N Team of the Tournament, and the same for the Magners League and Heineken Cup.


O'Brien didn't tour in to NZ and Oz last year in a makeshift team, and Wallace was soon hurt. They were also missing POC, Leamy, Ferris, and their best two hookers, yet Oz was lucky to beat them by 7 points. They were saved a few blushes by a brilliant intercept try by Burgess.


Ireland don't have anybody like Genia at scrum-half nor anybody of the type of Cooper at flyhalf, but the Leinster midfield of D'Arcy and BOD will be more than match for ours. They have some young galacticos for their back three but I would not be surprised if they used old stagers like Horgan and Bowe on the wing and Murphy at fullback, if fit enough, or some of them, for big RWC matches.


The Ireland v Australia game could be one of the highlights of the RWC in the pool stages.