$1 million Rugby Revolution

[Hugh Jarse]

One wonders if this is another example of Major Event Mathematics?

Moses uncovered this phenomena and posted on another thread, but is possibly relevant here.

Read a great article on Crikey yesterday, I believe Major Events Mathematics is being employed here
http://www.crikey.com.au/2012/09/26...-how-to-guide-on-demolishing-rubbish-reports/

 

[East Coast Aces]

FFA is starting a 2nd tier national comp called Australian Premier League. On Monday I believe they are making an official announcement and proposal of it's structure.

I read their national competitions and elite player pathways review and found this very interesting and possibly relevant to Australian club rugby.

http://www.footballqueensland.com.au/index.php?display=item&id=1732

It possibly could have been explained better for a reader not familiar with the current soccer structures and landscape.

In short it acknowledges that soccer clubs are responsible for the majority of player development into professionalism and aims at rewarding this and standardizing this. Putting more resources and a lot more accountability in the clubs.

It does seem to condone the haves and have not scenario which is a big argument (fear) in rugby. Where the big clubs get bigger and the rest become social or feeder clubs to nearby super clubs. I presume they have taken the stand that it happens anyway so let's make the most of it. (anyone for legalized marijuana here)

 

[TOCC]

Its my stance that rugby needs to follow a capitalism approach to a third tier, allow the wealthy clubs to get bigger and better and those which aren't will inevitably fall by the way sides..
Its better then the communist approach where everyone gets an equal slice of the pie and places greater expense and manpower on the governing body...

NRL and AFL followed the capitalism approach... The A-League and ARC followed the communist approach....

You do the math.....

 

[East Coast Aces]

Its my stance that rugby needs to follow a capitalism approach to a third tier, allow the wealthy clubs to get bigger and better and those which aren't will inevitably fall by the way sides..
Its better then the communist approach where everyone gets an equal slice of the pie and places greater expense and manpower on the governing body.

NRL and AFL followed the capitalism approach. The A-League and ARC followed the communist approach..

You do the math...

I am still a little undecided. As I think there might be too few wealthy clubs for this. As for capitalism to work their needs to be competition. Monopolies and duopolies are failures not success of capitalism. Also rugby success is often cyclical some teams may become victims of circumstance others may benefit from an abiration of success at the right time.

Also promotion relegation hasn't been apart of our national psyche. Possibly because of our youth as a country as similar colonial countries are only just having their first taste of this in NZ with Npc going 2 tier and 6 SA super teams.

I have also been trying to rap my head around the English rugby structure, recently re worked a few years ago. It has a 5 tier promotion relegation structure. Our small population spread over a large geographic area rules this out for us. But makes me think it does work.

From my understanding of how the APL will be structured is state leagues of varying number of teams (tas 8 team comp, qld 12 and Vic two tier promotion relegation etc.) With some sort of national component either a national knockout FFA Cup and or a finals serious.

This could be a blue print for our 3rd tier. Specially looking at how they overcome travel and accommodation costs and gain financial assitance from sponsorship and tv rights and FFA funding.

The best part of this APL is the main reason driving the FFA in this is player development. Taking pressure and responsibility away from AIS, national academies and City based A league clubs who r profit driven and giving it to grass roots but empowering them with elite competition, developmental structures and making them accountable.

 

[T.Rugby]

does anyone know any more on the potential u21's comp the aru were thinking of creating? what are people's thoughts on this?

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...style-revolution/story-fn8ti7yn-1226466829374

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Why not have an U21's Championship?

Just what we need.

ARU already fund the U16's.
Aust Schools RU fund with significant ARU input the U18's (AKA Aust Schools Championships).
Depending who you listen to the AJRU will be funding an U15 and U17 National Championship.
Someone is funding an U19 championship, currently limited to one game between NSW and QLD but who knows, if it involves a "look at me I'm someone important" blazer or spray jacket it needs to be spread well beyond the small number of NSW and QLD snouts.

The suggested U21 championship will only get legs if it involves some travel and accomodation paid for by the volunteer efforts of others, a decent range of branded clothing, an approved menu of appropriate quality washed down with a wine list approved by Lindommer.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Why not have an U21's Championship?

Just what we need.

ARU already fund the U16's.
Aust Schools RU fund with significant ARU input the U18's (AKA Aust Schools Championships).
Depending who you listen to the AJRU will be funding an U15 and U17 National Championship.
Someone is funding an U19 championship, currently limited to one game between NSW and QLD but who knows, if it involves a "look at me I'm someone important" blazer or spray jacket it needs to be spread well beyond the small number of NSW and QLD snouts.

The suggested U21 championship will only get legs if it involves some travel and accomodation paid for by the volunteer efforts of others, a decent range of branded clothing, an approved menu of appropriate quality washed down with a wine list approved by Lindommer.

Cynics of the world unite. As our patron saint, Desiderius Erasmus, was given to saying: "In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king."
.

 

[waratahjesus]

Do our university's have the desired locations to house a team each (built in supporters and merch sales) plus we can offer young players scholarships. Syd Uni for Sydney, UTS for north shore. UWS for the west in nsw, how do other states go?

 

[TOCC]

UQ is the only QLD uni which really supports a sports program...

QUT did in the past, but joined forces with Norths Rugby in the Premier Grade.

So the answer is effectively no for QLD

 

[waratahjesus]

Do you think basing sporting teams at universities may be an option? Like college teams in American football. I know it doesn't destroy the private schoolboy/upperclass theory rugby has, but maybe actually going after that base may make a third tear and rugby more sustainable in the long run.

 

[Jnor]

UTS would probably be the worst possible Uni for a rugby program, UNSW have subbies at least. And USyd should definitely be the uni that represents the north shore

IMO you'd be building stuff from the groung up everywhere but USyd and UQ and it ignores way too many other clubs and infrastructure that are already well established

 

[waratahjesus]

Yes, it does ignore other clubs, but I'm talking in terms of long term sustainability. Having built in audience at universities is one step, having some of those universities offer television production as courses can help in keeping broadcast costs down. Having the offer of scholarships can help keep wage costs down and win a war in what peanuts hope there kids play as rugby will be equated with knowledge. Having gyms/pools etc at a lot of unis cuts down training costs. Having student accom cuts down player traveling expenses. There's pros to it, I don't have all the answers, just throwing it out there for discussion.

 

[TOCC]

Do you think basing sporting teams at universities may be an option? Like college teams in American football. I know it doesn't destroy the private schoolboy/upperclass theory rugby has, but maybe actually going after that base may make a third tear and rugby more sustainable in the long run.

I think it would be difficult in QLD, University of QLD is the only uni that really has any significant interest in investing in scholarship schemes/elite sports programs..
Griffith, Bond, James Cook and University of South Queensland have minor sports programs but nothing which competes with the scale of UQ.

 

[Sumon]

With today's announcement of Channel Ten becoming the FTA broadcaster of the Wallabies, does anyone else think this is a very big step forward for the possibilities of the Balmain Rugby Revolution or any other simliar ITM cup equivalents being developed in Australia???

 

[Bowside]

Do our university's have the desired locations to house a team each (built in supporters and merch sales) plus we can offer young players scholarships. Syd Uni for Sydney, UTS for north shore. UWS for the west in nsw, how do other states go?

I actually think a university based system could work, but the universities involved would have to invest heavily in building support for the team around the campus.

The competition would have to be done 'right'. That means afternoon games, buses to and from games, $3 dollar beers and very cheap tickets. The merchandise would have to be well designed, and there would need to be a social media presence. The ARU is yet to prove they are capable of anything like this......

In Queensland only UQ, Bond and maybe QUT would be able to put out teams that would actually draw a crowd. If the smaller uni's were involved their games would have to be played as curtain raisers to reds games.

I think best system would be to have a 1st division with the big universities in it, and then have a second division with the smaller ones. Have promotion and relegation between the divisions. Should get the RMC involved as well.

The comp would have to make the universities enough money in gate takings and new admissions to justify 30 odd scholarships per team. Not as ridiculous as it sounds considering the team would be a glorified advertising exercise and these unis are prepared to spend bucketloads on tv ads each year.

Ideally I see such a comp played during the super rugby. Then after the super rugby you would have a club championship like the one mooted in this thread. Provides a development pathway and a 3rd teir - without the need to really manufacture supporters (I realise this is not true for all unis).

 

[Bowside]

I can just picture it now. ACU could be like Australia's own Notre Dame.

 

[Train Without a Station]

In Queensland only UQ, Bond and maybe QUT would be able to put out teams that would actually draw a crowd. If the smaller uni's were involved their games would have to be played as curtain raisers to reds games.

Mate, scrub Bond off that list. As Bond alumni who has played in both Bond and Bond Alumni teams, I can vouch that we struggled to draw enough players for a Bond Students team to vs an Alumni XV for one game, I'd say getting people to watch the Bond team would be just as much of a stretch with the exception of a few out of town first semester students out of curiosity.

But yeah, I agree with the sentiment.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I've previously wondered how a University competition would go, seeing the success of college sport. After all the success is based on people who aren't even necessarily fans of sport, following their alma mater. However I think cultural differences would mean we would not have success. Afterall most US College sports have rich history which outdate professional leagues. Unfortunately without massive financial input from the ARU or government, I think we have missed the boat for this by about 50-100 years. That being said, with investment from ARU/government it could probably be moderately successful if built from the ground up today.

 

[Bowside]

Mate, scrub Bond off that list. As Bond alumni who has played in both Bond and Bond Alumni teams, I can vouch that we struggled to draw enough players for a Bond Students team to vs an Alumni XV for one game, I'd say getting people to watch the Bond team would be just as much of a stretch with the exception of a few out of town first semester students out of curiosity.

But yeah, I agree with the sentiment.

Bond has all the pieces in place though to make it work: they have shown a willingness to sponsor rugby, they have a large amount of students actually living on campus and they have no problem handing out scholarships as well.

I agree that we've missed the boat with uni rugby, and also that this would probably only work at universities that have lots of people living in colleges who will go out and watch the rugby.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am told that most of the Balmain Rugby Club powerbrokers will be at the Long Rugby Lunch at the Riverview Hotel on 22 November.

Be a good time (if you have a spare $150) to find out first hand what is going on with the Balmain proposal.

The Inaugural Long Rugby Lunch will be held at the Riverview Hotel in Balmain on 22 November.

http://www.theriverviewhotel.com.au/?p=1343

Matt Burke and Phil Waugh will be guest speakers, and I am also told that Lote Tuquiri, Glen Ella and Warren Livingstone from the Fanatics (and Balmain Rugby Club) will be there.

I'm as keen as anything to get there given the recent Balmain Rugby Club $1m rugby competition proposal.

Also a good opportunity to obtain material for the I am immune from the Matt Burke theory because? thread.
Summary of the Details of the Lunch
DATE: Thursday, November 22
TIME: 12.30pm
VENUE: The Riverview Hotel Dining Room
COST: $150 per head includes 3 course meal, premium beverages and a chance to drink and exchange rugby yarns with 2 rugby legends
Bookings essential..
The Riverview Hotel 29 Birchgrove Road, Balmain
Phone: 02 9810 1151
email: info@theriverviewhotel.com.au