$1 million Rugby Revolution

[fatprop]

Are they the only requirements Fat? What is the maximum distance from your place that a good ground can be?

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nah, not my only one but pretty important.

Maximum? 10kms if I can help it, 12.5km under duress (ANZ Stadium)

 

[Karl]

Rather than expend huge amounts of intellectual effort and countless electrons going on about what might be preferable/better/etc, how about we all get behind Balmain and Waz and the very well thought out and comprehensive proposal that they are actually putting into motion and backing with hard cash and real action.

I like a theoretical gab fest as much as the next guy (provided he has limited time for them once a viable plan has emerged and has credible backers and resources being applied to it) BUT this is what it is and it is eminently preferable to navel gazing, chin wagging, subjective backward looking analysis and negativity.

I don't care if it's perfect. I care that it's REAL. I get so sick of opinions from people who will never DO anything hacking away at the positive contributions of people who ARE doing something. So much wasted intellectual capital that could be applied to solving issues with Waz' masterplan and moving what is on the table into reality.

This initiative deserves support, enthusiastic and passionate support, not theoretical debates about "better" concepts and inertia born from past disappointment.

Btw, GAGR gets a link off the Balmain Rugby site as a place to go for discussion.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Rather than expend huge amounts of intellectual effort and countless electrons going on about what might be preferable/better/etc, how about we all get behind Balmain and Waz and the very well thought out and comprehensive proposal that they are actually putting into motion and backing with hard cash and real action.

I like a theoretical gab fest as much as the next guy (provided he has limited time for them once a viable plan has emerged and has credible backers and resources being applied to it) BUT this is what it is and it is eminently preferable to navel gazing, chin wagging, subjective backward looking analysis and negativity.

I don't care if it's perfect. I care that it's REAL. I get so sick of opinions from people who will never DO anything hacking away at the positive contributions of people who ARE doing something. So much wasted intellectual capital that could be applied to solving issues with Waz' masterplan and moving what is on the table into reality.

This initiative deserves support, enthusiastic and passionate support, not theoretical debates about "better" concepts and inertia born from past disappointment.

Btw, GAGR gets a link off the Balmain Rugby site as a place to go for discussion.

"how about we all get behind Balmain and Waz" Why, because he is presumed to have money to throw at it? There have been various proposals previously advanced on this site for a Third Tier competition which were much more logically thought through than this effort which has more holes than a Swiss cheese.

"the very well thought out and comprehensive proposal that they are actually putting into motion and backing with hard cash and real action."

I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one on the forum with a penchant for sarcasm. On the other hand, Karl, if that's intended as a serious statement it is very obvious that the "Waz masterplan" is anything but "very well thought out and comprehensive". On Thursday it was "an eight team competition ... made up of Sydney clubs including Balmain". By Monday Waz was explaining on the podcast that it would be a 12-team competition consisting of separate conferences of six teams in Sydney and Brisbane. The Thursday article spoke of "Balmain Rugby Club [being] in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition" and Waz was quoted talking about it being "on prime time". On the podcast he admitted that his approach to them both was "at the beginning of the year", and Fox Sports has denied any knowledge of it or interest in it.

Let's see if the "hard cash and real action" is forthcoming.

As one of those "people who will never DO anything hacking away at the positive contributions of people who ARE doing something", include me out.
.

 

[Badger]

A follow up from the original article which appeared in The Inner West Courier last week.

Privately owned clubs to be part of Balmain's rugby revolution

• Rugby Union 9 Sep 12 @ 10:05am by Oliver Murray - INNER WEST COURIER

Last Thursday the Courier revealed Balmain president Warren Livingstone, founder of supporter group The Fanatics, had talked with Fox Sports and Channel Ten about staging a million-dollar competition.

The 12-team competition would be played from August to October next year when the Super Rugby finished and include players not selected for the Wallabies, international marquees, young talent and rugby league converts.

Livingstone wants the competition to become the Australian equivalent of the ITM Cup, which includes the five New Zealand Super Rugby sides and other provincial teams.

He said a new third-tier competition was needed to bridge the gap between the Super Rugby and the premier Sydney club competition the Shute Shield.

A naming rights sponsor would be sought to contribute towards the winner-takes-all $1 million prizemoney, with independently-run clubs from Brisbane and Sydney competing.

The teams would be privately run, with Livingstone already having ``substantial interest'' from potential owners.

Double-headers would be played on Friday nights at venues like Leichhardt Oval and Redfern Oval to reduce production costs for television coverage and make it value for money for spectators.

The proposal has sparked calls for the Australian Rugby Union (ARU) to bring back the Australian Rugby Championship, which was scrapped after one season in 2007 after financial losses of $4.7 million.

Livingstone said the new competition would start with only Sydney and Brisbane teams to reduce costs, before expanding if successful.

The competition is based on feedback the club received from Fox Sports and Channel Ten earlier this year.

 

[TOCC]

This bloke is ticking all the right boxes with this proposal IMO

 

[fatprop]

Yeah, smells of bullshit to me.

 

[Karl]

Bruce, I wasn't directing anything at anyone in particular. And having a perfect concept residing on GAGR's servers doesn't get it any closer to reality.

It may fail to launch, and it may not be perfect, but at least a bloke with an apparent track record of getting stuff done has his shoulder to the wheel and on the basis that, in it's imperfect reality, it benefits the Game and those that play it, then yes, it is worthy of support.

 

[p.Tah]

^^^ Wow. The power of the Gaggerland network.

Any sighting of a car with "RADIO" or "PIE MAN" number plates also in the Car Park?

I'm afraid not and Livingston was most likely visiting the SCG fitness centre.

 

[TOCC]

A pessimistic attitude keeps the world spinning, why hope for something better when you can be satisfied with mediocrity..

 

[AngrySeahorse]

I have been reading the posts, articles, & listened to the grand stand interview with Livingston. Here are my thoughts....

First off, most who have seen some of my posts would know I don't like the Sydney-centric nature of NSW Rugby in regards to rep playing opportunities for regional players. I believed regional teams joining the Shute Shield & expanding that comp was the best thing if an ARC could not be sustained (I still think this would be a good thing regardless of this $1mil comp happens or not). Problem is it seems the powers that be in Sydney & regional areas themselves don't want to expand/join (that's certainly what I'm discovering at Newcastle we seem more interested in our own comp).

HOWEVER, this $1mil comp has my 100% support given that they have stated that provided the comp goes well over time they will look to expand & they have listed regional areas as an option. To me it is the fact that this is even being considered that has me optimistic & willing to give them a go.

I love that they want to use Suburban grounds, both for the atmosphere & that it is also cost effective. I know there is no Newcastle team & I'm looking way ahead here (but indulge me for a moment), we've got a new revamped boutique/suburban stadium that is much smaller than Hunter Stadium that would be perfect for a future team in this $1mil comp if it gets off the ground & continues to grow as hoped.

I like the x2 conference, one QLD, one SYD, then a play off between the two structure. Feed off the state v state rivalry to start the inital drive of support. Once again I'm happy to have all the teams in SYD for NSW for the start of this comp as these are early stages. I do believe however that we really need x1 ACT team - agree with the suggestion of the Vikings. Call the conference the "NSW/ACT conference".

The timing, not to interfere with existing club comp & Super Rugby comp is also good. The youth quota idea is good but I'd reduce it to 6-7 & no more.

In regards to talk about prior allegiances I really regret not supporting the Rays in the ARC. I pretty much took the stance "Newcastle or nothing" because there is a bit of a rivalry between the Central Coast & Newcastle. I let that get in the way of supporting what was the closest ARC club to me that I easily could have gone to in order to see games. Also it was very close to Newcastle so players could have had some chance to play for a rep side more close than Sydney. I won't be making that mistake again. Just today I was talking to a few Novacastrians who regularly traveled down to watch the Rays.

I'm happy for fabricated teams, as HJ said it will work if it is done properly. The Rays had a good name & jersey despite being brand new. History is nice & I love tradition but it all has to start somewhere. That being said I was gearing up to adopt Balmain as my Sydney team given they are essentially the club behind this possibly revolutionary move.

Interesting times ahead at any rate.

 

[Nevawaz]

Here's a solution- The clubs to be broken down into professional (1st grade) and social (all other grades). The professional sides are funded by whatever means needed to be competitive and the lower grades maintain the amateur side of the game.
The pros play in time slots that don't clash with other rugby ie super rugby, schoolboys, subbies, lower grades, this will hopefully maximise crowds. The lower grades would basically be the top grade of subbies. I think a two division pro league would suit both established clubs and those with the ambition and resources to be competitive (perhaps Balmain, Illawarra, Campbelltown, Drummoyne, Uni of NSW ,Newcastle, Central Coast ). The top sides of the top division could then play off the top sides from other states, effectively you have to earn the right to play in the national comp which would be played in the mentioned time line. With a wealthy benefactor or two, a little bit of imaginative marketing/promotion, some tweaking of the rules and maybe some TV dollars we might be getting somewhere.

 

[RugbyReg]

Which clubs have broadcast quality lights?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Here's a solution- The clubs to be broken down into professional (1st grade) and social (all other grades). The professional sides are funded by whatever means needed to be competitive and the lower grades maintain the amateur side of the game.
The pros play in time slots that don't clash with other rugby ie super rugby, schoolboys, subbies, lower grades, this will hopefully maximise crowds. The lower grades would basically be the top grade of subbies. I think a two division pro league would suit both established clubs and those with the ambition and resources to be competitive (perhaps Balmain, Illawarra, Campbelltown, Drummoyne, Uni of NSW ,Newcastle, Central Coast ). The top sides of the top division could then play off the top sides from other states, effectively you have to earn the right to play in the national comp which would be played in the mentioned time line. With a wealthy benefactor or two, a little bit of imaginative marketing/promotion, some tweaking of the rules and maybe some TV dollars we might be getting somewhere.

Hmm.........while I agree somewhat with the streamlining of Grade footy to say two open and one colts, I cannot see where the extra financing would be found by the clubs from their available pool of funds at present. For it to work, it would require the current 12 grade clubs to effectively split into two distinct divisions in order to keep it somewhat manageable with the top 5 or 6 competing against the QLD and ACT clubs while the other would then need to form some sort of 2nd div state league which could involve the likes of the Illawarra, Newcastle and the Central Coast. It would need some sort of promo/relegation set up which could prove problematic. It's hard to see it working as vested interests would likely interfere.

 

[It is what it is]

The sport in Australia most similar to rugby in terms of tiers is cricket.
National teams are elite, State players make good money, and club players play mostly for peanuts.
Like rugby however, if you want to make it into a state team level or higher you need to play in the metropolitan club competition of your state's major city.
Rugby and cricket aren't the only sports where progressing in your sport requires moving to the city.....it's just the way it is.
We're a huge country with a relatively small population and we shouldn't ignore these realities.
Rugby League has taken years to expand and had a few false starts, Basketball and Football haven't set the world on fire and even AFL, the national benchmark in Australian sport has been disciplined enough to keep expansion to the major capitol cities except for Geelong, Fremantle and more recently the Gold Coast.
I love the country areas of Australia but whatever competition launches can't possibly go to the expense and risk of including regional teams from the start.

 

[East Coast Aces]

Alright I have started training, who is going to sign me up and how much are you going to pay me?

 

[In the know I think.]

Hmm...while I agree somewhat with the streamlining of Grade footy to say two open and one colts, I cannot see where the extra financing would be found by the clubs from their available pool of funds at present. For it to work, it would require the current 12 grade clubs to effectively split into two distinct divisions in order to keep it somewhat manageable with the top 5 or 6 competing against the QLD and ACT clubs while the other would then need to form some sort of 2nd div state league which could involve the likes of the Illawarra, Newcastle and the Central Coast. It would need some sort of promo/relegation set up which could prove problematic. It's hard to see it working as vested interests would likely interfere.

There has alway been a theory that by dropping the lower grades the clubs save money. This is not the case. Lower grades actually make you money. They all pay fees, the coaches get nothing, they play in last years 1s and 2s jumpers, they hit the bar and canteen with a vengence during 1s. The cost of grounds and lights are the same if 1 or 6 teams are playing or training.
If you really think about it, clubs will be poorer, not just culturally but financially.
I do have access to some numbers and trust me this is a fact.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

There has alway been a theory that by dropping the lower grades the clubs save money. This is not the case. Lower grades actually make you money. They all pay fees, the coaches get nothing, they play in last years 1s and 2s jumpers, they hit the bar and canteen with a vengence during 1s. The cost of grounds and lights are the same if 1 or 6 teams are playing or training.
If you really think about it, clubs will be poorer, not just culturally but financially.
I do have access to some numbers and trust me this is a fact.

I confess to not knowing the impact dropping grades would have on clubs. I'll take your word for the reasoning for keeping them. My point was to prove the impracticality and unlikelihood of the suggestion of Nevawaz had put forth. In my first sentence I actually mentioned that I couldn't see of this would prove any extra benefit financially to clubs in order to follow through with the idea and I did question to myself whether eliminating the others grades would hurt clubs financially.

 

[Nevawaz]

Just to clarify my previous post. Firstly 2 Divisions in Sydney around 8 teams each promotion/relegation, a full home and away season is played then a finals system involving top 4 (or less) Sydney & Brisbane clubs and premiers from Melbourne, Perth and Canberra (maybe the winner could be given 2 million dollars).
Lower grades play seperately for a rough example Sydney Uni's 2nd grade side play 1st grade Kentwell Cup, Penrith's lower grades will play in a division suited to their standard. And of course these lower grades are vital to a clubs support, strength and culture and I wouldn't recommend any other changes or culling of grades. As far as the pro league goes I'd like to see the ARU play a roll in sourcing finance for both the competition and the clubs (perhaps their marketing and sponsorship team could get involved on behalf of the clubs).
As far as Illawarra, Newcastle and Central Coast they all represent significant populations and have a decent rugby presence. These sides should play when they are not in competition with their local comps and could potentially draw a decent gate as there are not as many events on for the locals eg St G/Illawaara play 6 times a year in the gong.
It would be good to see Rugby casting a wider net and hopefully seeing some improvement in player numbers, junior development and profile in these areas as well as utilising the support and resources other clubs and individuals can bring to the table.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The whole Toxicity Avenger thing with QC (Quade Cooper) is getting a bit tedius and depressing.

Has anyone heard anything more on the Balmain/Fanatics proposal?

 

[I like to watch]

Can someone explain is there $1M from someone committed to this, or is it pie in the sky depending on big TV $ and over inflated estimates of gate receipts etc?