$1 million Rugby Revolution

[SouthernX]

Broadcasting and sponsorship??
Not sure what world you live in, but the last time a 3rd tier of rugby was broadcast on TV(ARC) the ARU actually had to subsidise the ABC's cost of production.
Many clubs are already running a tightrope financially, sponsorships aren't going to increase dramatically overnight.. What you are proposing would be a financial burden on all involved

Well if there's a mythical million dollar pot of gold to get a competition going, Surely I am allowed to take a small portion of that money to pay for flights for the Brizzie teams.

& plus ABC is a organisation that tends to not generate much income cause they don't run advertisements (hence the reason why they need to subsidise pay for the last competition) .. I'm thinking of a national competition being shown on Channel 10 where after they score a try the commentators say "Lets go to Marto for the XXXX sideline recap" after XXXX recap then they'd cut to big block of advertisements.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Good God. People are actually taking this nonsense seriously. Below is what I posted in the "Sydney Shake Up" thread in the Club Rugby section:

Wow! Rugby’s answer to World Series Cricket has arrived. Sue for peace immediately, John O’Neill, or you’ll soon be road kill.

“A KERRY Packer-style revolution of rugby union is being planned, with Balmain Rugby Club in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition.”

They think big at Balmain Rugby Club. It’s going to be shown on both pay TV and free-to-air! SANZAR couldn’t swing that but they didn’t have the vision and stature of Warren Livingstone. Not surprisingly the rules – they’re actually Laws, Warren – are going to be changed “to make it more attacking.”

"It's got to be based on attacking rugby if it's on prime time," he said. "With the rugby league double-headers on Channel 9, we want to offer something to other networks to show." So not only pay TV and free-to-air, but “prime time” on Friday nights.

This is a product which will very soon be transmitted globally, including to countries where rugby is unknown – or perhaps especially to countries where rugby is unknown.

The Livingstone competition is going to "bridge the gap" between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield whose “days are numbered". To bridge that gap they’ve already got one club signed up – Balmain – which would absolutely overwhelm any of the Shute Shield teams.

A seven-week extravaganza involving double-headers at the magnificent Leichhardt Oval on Friday nights. Sell-out crowds are guaranteed. No fooling about with finals. Prize money of $1 million “winner-take-all”. The other clubs get nothing for their investment in “Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies” – who’ll be readily released by the Super franchises; “emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees.” It’s a great business model which should attract any number of canny private owners. Don't be surprised if the Russian oligarchs move in to outbid the locals.

A century or so after Rugby League was established Rugby is facing its second great schism. And this time there is every chance that our once great code will not survive.
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[Dam0]

Is there any detail on what laws would be changed to make it more attacking? I think lower ranked tournaments tend to be more attacking anyway due to less efficient structures in defence (ala the ITM Cup). It would be defeating the purpose of a third tier if they are proposing to much about with the laws too much.

 

[TOCC]

Good God. People are actually taking this nonsense seriously. Below is what I posted in the "Sydney Shake Up" thread in the Club Rugby section:

Wow! Rugby’s answer to World Series Cricket has arrived. Sue for peace immediately, John O’Neill, or you’ll soon be road kill.

“A KERRY Packer-style revolution of rugby union is being planned, with Balmain Rugby Club in discussions with Channel Ten and Fox Sports about staging a new million-dollar competition.”

They think big at Balmain Rugby Club. It’s going to be shown on both pay TV and free-to-air! SANZAR couldn’t swing that but they didn’t have the vision and stature of Warren Livingstone. Not surprisingly the rules – they’re actually Laws, Warren – are going to be changed “to make it more attacking.”

"It's got to be based on attacking rugby if it's on prime time," he said. "With the rugby league double-headers on Channel 9, we want to offer something to other networks to show." So not only pay TV and free-to-air, but “prime time” on Friday nights.

This is a product which will very soon be transmitted globally, including to countries where rugby is unknown – or perhaps especially to countries where rugby is unknown.

The Livingstone competition is going to "bridge the gap" between Super Rugby and the Shute Shield whose “days are numbered". To bridge that gap they’ve already got one club signed up – Balmain – which would absolutely overwhelm any of the Shute Shield teams.

A seven-week extravaganza involving double-headers at the magnificent Leichhardt Oval on Friday nights. Sell-out crowds are guaranteed. No fooling about with finals. Prize money of $1 million “winner-take-all”. The other clubs get nothing for their investment in “Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies” – who’ll be readily released by the Super franchises; “emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees.” It’s a great business model which should attract any number of canny private owners. Don't be surprised if the Russian oligarchs move in to outbid the locals.

A century or so after Rugby League was established Rugby is facing its second great schism. And this time there is every chance that our once great code will not survive.
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Bruce, im happy to get behind and entertain the thought of any competition/body/restructure which will may help to improve the quality of 3rd tier rugby..

So what if this bid doesn't go through in the format he has proposed, its invigorating to know that there are people out there who genuinely see more potential in 3rd tier rugby union then what is currently be produced in the form of the Shute Shield and Premier Grade rugby.

 

[p.Tah]

I'm not sure the Balmain solution is the right option but as TOCC says let's hope it jolts the ARU into action. I was dismayed when Nucifora said that Premier Rugby is the solution.

In QLD and NSW there are 22 Permier Teams to provide players for the Tahs, Reds, Rebels and Force. The ACT basically do their own thing. The talent is way too spread out across 22 teams. NZ have 14 in the ITM and SA have 6 in the Currie Cup. The teams need to be concentrated for the players to improve. No new insights there from me, but why arent the ARU looking to do something about it?

They tried to do something on the 'cheap' with the Centralised Academy, but the U20 RWC showed its flawed. Come on ARU pull your finger out. It's doesn't have to have the Bells and Whistles like the ARC did, but we need something. I'd be happy with a more substantial franchise academy comp with the Pacific Islands.

I'm with Wamberal and others this 3rd tier won't reel in the broadcasters and viewers against the NRL or AFL. As said above a 7s comp would, but a weekend tournament is too long for FTA TV. Keep those and build a bona fide national circuit but also design a made for prime time TV version. I've mentioned it before 8x 7s teams in a 3 hour tournament on Friday night would interest a wider audience. I don't care if they carry the Province or the Premier Rugby teams names, but I would like it to happen.

 

[TOCC]

Well if there's a mythical million dollar pot of gold to get a competition going, Surely I am allowed to take a small portion of that money to pay for flights for the Brizzie teams.

& plus ABC is a organisation that tends to not generate much income cause they don't run advertisements (hence the reason why they need to subsidise pay for the last competition) .. I'm thinking of a national competition being shown on Channel 10 where after they score a try the commentators say "Lets go to Marto for the XXXX sideline recap" after XXXX recap then they'd cut to big block of advertisements.

Lets run the maths... A squad of 30 players(including coaches) fly to Sydney return($200/each way) = $12'000

8 teams from Sydney fly to Brisbane 4 times a year = $512'000
8 teams from Brisbane fly to Sydney 4 times a year = $512'000
total cost = $1'024'000

You can see how easily the figures add up to more then a "small portion" of that "million dollar pot of gold".

 

[TOCC]

I'm not sure the Balmain solution is the right option but as TOCC says let's hope it jolts the ARU into action. I was dismayed when Nucifora said that Premier Rugby is the solution.

In QLD and NSW there are 22 Permier Teams to provide players for the Tahs, Reds, Rebels and Force. The ACT basically do their own thing. The talent is way too spread out across 22 teams. NZ have 14 in the ITM and SA have 6 in the Currie Cup. The teams need to be concentrated for the players to improve. No new insights there from me, but why arent the ARU looking to do something about it?

They tried to do something on the 'cheap' with the Centralised Academy, but the U20 RWC showed its flawed. Come on ARU pull your finger out. It's doesn't have to have the Bells and Whistles like the ARC did, but we need something. I'd be happy with a more substantial franchise academy comp with the Pacific Islands.

I'm with Wamberal and others this 3rd tier won't reel in the broadcasters and viewers against the NRL or AFL. As said above a 7s comp would, but a weekend tournament is too long for FTA TV. Keep those and build a bona fide national circuit but also design a made for prime time TV version. I've mentioned it before 8x 7s teams in a 3 hour tournament on Friday night would interest a wider audience. I don't care if they carry the Province or the Premier Rugby teams names, but I would like it to happen.

Precisely...

New Zealand have 150 Super Rugby players playing in 14 ITM Cup teams(1 comp)..
South Africa has 150 Super Rugby players playing in 6 Currie Cup teams(1 comp)..

Australia has 150 Super Rugby players playing in ..... ''''''drum roll''''''........ 39 teams across 4 competitions

 

[Badger]

Kudos to Livingstone for giving it a go rather than just talking or complaining about the state of rugby. He didn't make the Fanatics successful without some business smarts so he wouldn't be considering it if the financials don't add up. Good idea to start with Sydney based teams in one location and refine it as you go.

If he is serious, I look forward to seeing what he plans to do. Even if it doesn't come together, I hope it serves as a wake up to the rugby establishment.

 

[Bowside]

I think this is a pretty interesting idea and even if they get it wrong, hopefully it will force the ARU's hand and maybe give the Australian Rugby Union the kick up the arse that it desperately needs.

First and foremost, I think that the ARU, in conjunction with the NZRU, should be directing available funds towards setting up a 10 team trans-tasman U21 competition to be played during the super rugby season. This would provide young players with a clear pathway to super rugby, like the toyota cup does to NRL.

I believe this is crucial to development in both Australia and NZ, as more and more every year we are seeing the cream of young talent being picked up by league clubs who can offer a
better development pathway to professional sport than pretty much any club in australia (bar a couple) can provide. For young players it is not so much about money, but rather opportunity, and in a competition like the one I have suggested there would be opportunities galore.

However, there is defiantly a hole that needs to be filled after the end of the super rugby season. The proposed 8 team competition is interesting, however I believe it will lead to a system of have's and have-nots, as aspiring professional players will only choose to ply their trade at clubs that compete in the competition.

I think a better system would be to retain a similar format as the one suggested, but instead make the basis for team qualification final ladder position in that years club rugby. This would require the club competitions to start earlier in the year so as to be finished in time, but this is not really a big deal as not many 1st graders still play cricket in the summer.

I would suggest maybe have the top 4 or 5 teams from that years shute shield, as well as top 3 or 4 teams from the Queensland premier rugby, and maybe in time they could also include the winner of the ACT and Victorian comps. For logistical reasons I think it is unrealistic to include the winner of the WA comp until the competition is well established.

I think if they did it this way it would be a win-win situation for both the ARU, the clubs and the competition organisers.

 

[Bowside]

I am also curious about the Balmain rugby club. Surely if they are considering competing with the likes of sydney uni, southern districts, eastwood, norths, manly etc. they would first need to be admitted to the shute shield.

Would Sydney be able to support another inner city club in the shute shield?

From what I understand the closest Shute Shield club to balmain is West Harbour, is there any chance of a merger between the two?

 

[p.Tah]

From what I understand the closest Shute Shield club to balmain is West Harbour, is there any chance of a merger between the two?

They could be called the West Tigers

 

[ChargerWA]

Fox just poo poohed it on the Rugby Club. Apparently they aren't involved at all.

 

[p.Tah]

But on the topic of a 3rd tier, Kafe said watch this space

 

[Bowside]

Fox just poo poohed it on the Rugby Club. Apparently they aren't involved at all.

Probably not a bad thing.

I really hope that if this competition gets off the ground it is on free to air. They amount of league and afl games drops markedly this time of year, and with some careful scheduling clashes could be avoided.

Would give the punters some weekend sport to watch before the cricket season gets under way.

I imagine the big gambling companies might also get behind this proposal as there is no doubt a few dollars to be made. Especially if they can rope in the considerable amount of people who have a weekly punt on league and afl.

 

[Badger]

From what I understand the closest Shute Shield club to balmain is West Harbour, is there any chance of a merger between the two?

Balmain is closer to Sydney Uni than Concord Oval.

 

[Bowside]

Balmain is closer to Sydney Uni than Concord Oval.

That could work actually. I dont know how keen the uni would be to support a (somewhat) professional sports team.

They could play as uni in the shute shield, with guys who don't make the 4ths playing subbies at balmain. Then once this comp starts they could just take the uni first XV and put them in a balmain jersey. Would defiantly give balmain a good chance at winning the thing....

 

[Scarfman]

Bit cynical there, Bruce. If both Fox and Sydney University have pooh-poohed it then I think it's got legs. The alternative, Bruce and Kearnsey, and all other interested parties, is to let the same fucking self-serving bastards that currently run rugby keep on running rugby.

Outside of the 1991 and 1999 RWCs, the ARC was my lifetime rugby highlight. I loved the new teams, and I loved the new rules (sorry, Laws). That Livingstone fella's got my vote.

 

[kiap]

G&GR is the biggest rugby brains trust in Australia. Why doesn't someone have a word with Livingstone? There's similarities between the Fanatics and G&GR that he would recognise. Some synergies there, I'd say.

Looking at his work in Balmain, he's a guy who can get things done.

Get Woz on the GAGR Podcast.

 

[East Coast Aces]

Lets run the maths. A squad of 30 players(including coaches) fly to Sydney return($200/each way) = $12'000

8 teams from Sydney fly to Brisbane 4 times a year = $512'000
8 teams from Brisbane fly to Sydney 4 times a year = $512'000
total cost = $1'024'000

You can see how easily the figures add up to more then a "small portion" of that "million dollar pot of gold".

It might be cost effective if it were a chartered flight for everyone.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Bit cynical there, Bruce. If both Fox and Sydney University have pooh-poohed it then I think it's got legs. The alternative, Bruce and Kearnsey, and all other interested parties, is to let the same fucking self-serving bastards that currently run rugby keep on running rugby.

Outside of the 1991 and 1999 RWCs, the ARC was my lifetime rugby highlight. I loved the new teams, and I loved the new rules (sorry, Laws). That Livingstone fella's got my vote.

Cynical? Moi?

Let’s just focus on one of the absurdities:

“Teams would be made up of Super Rugby players not selected for the Wallabies, emerging young players, rugby league converts and international marquees.”

There is no way that the Super franchises or the ARU would allow contracted players to be released to a non-sanctioned rival competition. Then we have the issue of timing:

“The eight-team competition would start after the Super Rugby season ended ...”

This means it would be running at the same time as the Shute Shield, which means that Warren Rugger could not use players still with the established clubs to constitute the “emerging young players”. So they are going to have to be trained specifically for a seven week season up to a standard above that of the Shute Shield. Serious players in the Sydney Premiership Clubs train for 10 or 11 months per year, so the Warren Rugger players would be training and not playing for 8 or 9 months. Any ambitious kid would jump at the chance to play just seven games a year. Or are they all going to be fine-tuned in Sydney Subbies and then desert that competition mid-season?

World Series indeed. World Series fantasising.
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