Pumas vs Wallabies, 25th July 2015, Mendoza

[the sabanator]

It won't be necessarily popular on this forum but I thought Skelton was much improved from last week. A few good hits in defence and I think he sparked our attack a few times with some nice strong runs for good metres.

 

[Groucho]

Good win by the Wallabies in anyone's language - Argentina are now a genuine top tier rugby nation and are hard to beat at home. We really had to work hard to get over them and they defended very well. I like the way that Argentina have moved from having a forwards dominated 10 man game to a genuine 15 man approach. They tend to push the pass and we were able to exert pressure there and they never really looked like scoring.

A pity that To'omua had to go off early as the Cooper/Beale bench didn't really have a player to cover what To'omua brings.

Good hard win and I like the way we finished over them with late tries.

Exackerly. The Pumas are nobody's bunnies. Thankfully we're not theirs either.

 

[Groucho]

Tatafu Polota-Nau is he key to this World Cup to get out of the pool. England and Welsh L/O are not all that flash especially England who don't play Vunipola as a jumping option, Haskell is somewhat a make-shift jumper.
Outside that against the Boks, Irish, French and Blacks our line out must function. However in our pool games if our scrum is unsteady that's 3 points every time inside 50

Goal-kicking is a real toss of the coin. Chris Malone is the kicking coach who has just recently joined the squad however our best option hasn't really stood out. IMO in big games Giteau and Foley have been very solid with KB (Kurtley Beale) as a long range option. I think that could be the way to go.

Gits is a low chance to start if To'omua is fit. It's daylight after To'omua to start at 12, although Beale today showed he's a good replacement off the bench.

It's Foley, unfortunately. He has to up his game. He's kicked consistently before.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It won't be necessarily popular on this forum but I thought Skelton was much improved from last week. A few good hits in defence and I think he sparked our attack a few times with some nice strong runs for good metres.

Needs to eliminate the 2 or 3 stupid penalties a match. Just like his scrum partner did

 

[the sabanator]

Needs to eliminate the 2 or 3 stupid penalties a match. Just like his scrum partner did

Oh without a doubt, and they'd hurt us against any of the better teams. But his go forward today was what we need if he can cut the crap

 

[Viking]

I think Joe Tomane showed for his try how valuable speed is on the wing. He looked a little lost on defence though, Speight should be injected asap.

 

[swingpass]

from the two games as i see it, either cooper or foley to start ( i prefer QC (Quade Cooper)), To'omua at 12, TK at 13.
on the bench you can't have both cooper and beale, nor can you have giteau and cooper, i think QC (Quade Cooper) starts or isn't in the 23, similarly with foley, 10 or out.
the bench options i think are giteau or leliafano (inside backs) and one of horne, beale, mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), tomane assuming that speight is one wing, and one of those is the other. personally i would go with speight and horne starting and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the reserve. beale is a match winner but also a possible match loser, i don't think he should start but is a great option off the bench in the last 10 -15.

 

[Benaud]

By my calcs we now have a final next week against the ABs, winner wins the TRC and a draw sees Wallabies pinch it by 1 for and against point!

 

[Groucho]

from the two games as i see it, either cooper or foley to start ( i prefer QC (Quade Cooper)), To'omua at 12, TK at 13.
on the bench you can't have both cooper and beale, nor can you have giteau and cooper, i think QC (Quade Cooper) starts or isn't in the 23, similarly with foley, 10 or out.
the bench options i think are giteau or leliafano (inside backs) and one of horne, beale, mitchell, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), tomane assuming that speight is one wing, and one of those is the other. personally i would go with speight and horne starting and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) as the reserve. beale is a match winner but also a possible match loser, i don't think he should start but is a great option off the bench in the last 10 -15.

The problem is that Cooper is way out of form.

Beale claimed a bench spot today.

 

[Pfitzy]

Why is the scrum better in the 2nd half.

I'm glad you asked - it boils down to a few things:

1) I'm not convinced Slipper has taken the park anywhere near 100% in either game.

2) Add in the fact that Simmons seems to have lost the pushing mojo he had at TH lock last year. Maybe the angles don't work for him.

3) As some have pointed out, Skelton is packing a little high and that can result in destabilising the other side of the scrum a little.

4) However, that previous point loses some of its value when you consider we started to seriously up our scrum game in the last quarter when the replacements came on

5) At that point we must consider the strength of our bench versus the strength of the opposition's.

6) When you look at how Meyer managed his bench last week, he got some props on very early to replace his starters, though it could be argued Jannie Du Plessis was a bit knocked around from an early stinger. Nevertheless, our loosehead side was still getting dicked. But the Saffer replacements didn't seem to be as good as ours, particularly Holmes and Horwill, so Skelton got some blame there.

7) But this week, Skelton is still on the park for 80 when our scrum starts to dominate, so yeah, Point 5) comes back into play for both games.

This week we had Holmes at THP, and we were still getting attacked on our loosehead side. So to join the dots based on what I know of scrummaging, but what no-one can see without being in the middle of it, is that the Saffers and Argies are both targeting Moore at scrum time.

The THP and hooker both angle in on him, producing a sideways shift, that takes any forward power we have off the scrum. We're too slow to adjust, and then they push straight and the changing angle means Slipper goes backwards.

I'd really be interested to see what happens when Simmons goes back to TH lock and Skelton to LH lock. And on our own ball we should just aim to push the fuck over the thing, and no bother hooking. Basic method there is to shunt on the feed, take the opposition by surprise, and then hook once the LHP comes up a bit.

In any case, I doubt whether we'll see Sio start unless Slipper was seriously concussed. And he didn't look happy, but two weeks off should help.

 

[Pfitzy]

By my calcs we now have a final next week against the ABs, winner wins the TRC and a draw sees Wallabies pinch it by 1 for and against point!

Unless we draw on penalties and they have four tries...

But fuck that - we want the win!

 

[Train Without a Station]

By being there to support good work of others? That's no different to Cooper's miracle offload to Kuridrani that put us on the front foot directly in front and encouraged Argentina to infringe and gave us a penalty 10m out directly in front.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Pfitzy Slipper had been carrying shoulder injuries and injured his ankle last week. I think he may be a big cause. Needs a rest badly.

 

[Wendell]

Slipper is now paying the price for not being pulled out of the S15 to get his injuries right and give him a good block of S&C. It is common knowledge that he needs surgery on his shoulders and his neck has given him problems all season. If that is Tony Woodcock the ABs pull him out of S15 to get right for the WC. It is not like the Reds were a chance of playing finals. That was obvious after the first game vs the Brumbies....
He is a very good player but needs to do the bread and butter of his job much better.

 

[Pfitzy]

Benn Robinson to the rescue!

 

[swingpass]

i agree that Cooper is not at his best, but didn't play that badly last week and he has significantly more upside than foley. to my mind he needs more game time at 10 (and only as the fly half) to run himself into form. the difficulty is there are only three tests before the RWC to do so. so i suppose Cheika has to make a decision and stick with it, injury permitting. if they go with phipps, foley and To'omua i won't complain, but its not what i would choose to win the RWC

 

[Marcelo]

Need to consider whether Sio should start ahead of Slipper.

I agree

 

[Tomikin]

we need to stick it to the blacks as well, good thing is we have won both games and not played as well as we would like.

Hopefully To'omua's back next week, and I would start Speight..

One of the best things I've seen so far is that our reserve scrum seems to pump everyone else reserve scrum..

 

[Groucho]

i agree that Cooper is not at his best, but didn't play that badly last week and he has significantly more upside than foley. to my mind he needs more game time at 10 (and only as the fly half) to run himself into form. the difficulty is there are only three tests before the RWC to do so. so i suppose Cheika has to make a decision and stick with it, injury permitting. if they fog with phipps, foley and To'omua i won't complain, but its not what i would choose to win the RWC

It would be a major surprise if Cheika picked Cooper for the Bled test. Foley was excellent today, except for his poor goal kicking. There's no reason why he can't steer a winning team in the RWC.

It's not our flyhalf that will win or lose the RWC. It's the tight five. We have excellent outside backs. Whether you want a long passer or a facilitator to release them depends on preference. But whoever it is, they have to be in form.

 

[barbarian]

Slipper is now paying the price for not being pulled out of the S15 to get his injuries right and give him a good block of S&C. It is common knowledge that he needs surgery on his shoulders and his neck has given him problems all season. If that is Tony Woodcock the ABs pull him out of S15 to get right for the WC. It is not like the Reds were a chance of playing finals. That was obvious after the first game vs the Brumbies..
He is a very good player but needs to do the bread and butter of his job much better.

Yeah but if he needs a full shoulder reco then he wouldn't be back in time for the RWC.

That's the thing about Slipper, he doesn't need rest, he needs surgery.
.