Where to for Super Rugby?

[KOB1987]

Wayne Smith’s article this morning infers that RAs preference for the pro tier is a TT competition. WS then says that we might need to come back to 3 or 4 teams and makes some unpopular speculation (and its only that) about how that might come about. Ella’s neighbouring article says NZ may prefer to go it alone.

 

[Quick Hands]

Wayne Smith’s article this morning infers that RAs preference for the pro tier is a TT competition. WS then says that we might need to come back to 3 or 4 teams and makes some unpopular speculation (and its only that) about how that might come about. Ella’s neighbouring article says NZ may prefer to go it alone.

The paradox being that 3 or 4 teams (or even 5 IMO) isn't going to capture the interest of the Australian public beyond the hard core rusted on. It would simply be a rugby version of the Sheffield Shield with state entities providing a high level of competitive games for the national team. However, without engaging with a much much wider audience who's going to be watching the national team in 20 years time when the current hard core rusted on are too old to go?

As has been evident from the start of this process, the only way that RA will bite the bullet and strike out with any sort of innovative approach is if NZRU force their hand by going their own way.

 

[dru]

The paradox being that - - -

that kicking the can down the road is a default to the slow speed train crash.

It continues a top down policy on what is required for best WB performance, (short-term-ism) but does not look to the reality of the sport in Aus. The National pro "tier" ideally connects to the state pro comps and connects organisations like SRU into the process. It should also look to build a domestic market that has semblance of a chance of actually being valued by the market.

Still as I have mentioned before it is exactly what I expect, more of the same, chance to leap off the slow speed train crash carefully avoided. Upside being we will at least get more pro rugby at least until the train runs out of steam.

May as well sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[TSR]

I think the whole thing with goal drop outs is it encourages attacking kicks because the outcome is much better if a defending player grounds the ball.

It should also open up defensive space as they will have to defend the threat of a kick far more than they do now.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I am beginning to think only way could ever create a viable pro rugby competition in Australia or trans Tasman is with private equity investment and control as I don’t think NZRU or RA have either the skills or can move beyond myopic self interest to create the right commercially viable competition

 

[RedsHappy]

I am beginning to think only way could ever create a viable pro rugby competition in Australia or trans Tasman is with private equity investment and control as I don’t think NZRU or RA have either the skills or can move beyond myopic self interest to create the right commercially viable competition

Great observation and precisely where private equity and its innate, non-negotiable, commercial ruthlessness may be the code-saving catalyst.

Like the hard master the spoilt child always needed and never had.

 

[KOB1987]

Great observation and precisely where private equity and its innate, non-negotiable, commercial ruthlessness may be the code-saving catalyst.

Like the hard master the spoilt child always needed and never had.

Well Mclennan at least will have pretty solid PE contacts, Magellan may even have a PE fund themselves.

 

[RedsHappy]

Well Mclennan at least will have pretty solid PE contacts, Magellan may even have a PE fund themselves.

For sure. He understands that game and its rules. IMO, he'd likely be well-equipped to negotiate with PE but, as @Barbarian said yesterday, we hold very few cards given our parlous 2021 cash flow outlook.

 

[Quick Hands]

that kicking the can down the road is a default to the slow speed train crash.

It continues a top down policy on what is required for best WB performance, (short-term-ism) but does not look to the reality of the sport in Aus. The National pro "tier" ideally connects to the state pro comps and connects organisations like SRU into the process. It should also look to build a domestic market that has semblance of a chance of actually being valued by the market.

Still as I have mentioned before it is exactly what I expect, more of the same, chance to leap off the slow speed train crash carefully avoided. Upside being we will at least get more pro rugby at least until the train runs out of steam.

May as well sit back and enjoy the ride.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am beginning to think only way could ever create a viable pro rugby competition in Australia or trans Tasman is with private equity investment and control as I don’t think NZRU or RA have either the skills or can move beyond myopic self interest to create the right commercially viable competition

At least we know that RA don't have the skills to either create a commercially viable competition or even oversee the establishment of franchises as can be seen from the ARC and the NRC. Giving them a 3rd shot would be destined for a similar result.

Essentially, it's not in the interest of the state RUs, particularly the NSWRU and the QRU to have successful pro teams operating outside their control.

 

[half]

Maybe Ms Castle was on the money with her plans ... and just maybe she was knifed so she could not carry them out.

Below is an interesting interview on SBS... its mostly about the A-League and its lost audience in the interview click on my link if you wanta watch. Not that much in the interview for rugby.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/net...m-is-the-future-says-sports-technology-expert

HOWEVER the article or in parts is very very very very very worth while reading.

SBS interview a guy called McCoy who is the CEO and co-founder of live sports graphics company LIGR, and the founder of sports video firm VPA Technologies. Watch if you want but as I said the guts come through in the article.


He talks about taking control of your own broadcasting for streaming purposes but that you stream everything.


I think this what a private investor will do if they buy into Australian rugby.


AS you read further into the article it seems R Castle was on the money.

 

[Quick Hands]

Maybe Ms Castle was on the money with her plans . and just maybe she was knifed so she could not carry them out.

Below is an interesting interview on SBS. its mostly about the A-League and its lost audience in the interview click on my link if you wanta watch. Not that much in the interview for rugby.

https://theworldgame.sbs.com.au/net...m-is-the-future-says-sports-technology-expert

HOWEVER the article or in parts is very very very very very worth while reading.

SBS interview a guy called McCoy who is the CEO and co-founder of live sports graphics company LIGR, and the founder of sports video firm VPA Technologies. Watch if you want but as I said the guts come through in the article.


He talks about taking control of your own broadcasting for streaming purposes but that you stream everything.


I think this what a private investor will do if they buy into Australian rugby.


AS you read further into the article it seems R Castle was on the money.

Castle was thrown under the bus by the good old rugby boys on the RA board. I'm not sure how good she was and we'll never know. What we do know is that the board whose wishes she was carrying out disowned her when she needed support.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

At least we know that RA don't have the skills to either create a commercially viable competition or even oversee the establishment of franchises as can be seen from the ARC and the NRC. Giving them a 3rd shot would be destined for a similar result.

Essentially, it's not in the interest of the state RUs, particularly the NSWRU and the QRU to have successful pro teams operating outside their control.

There was article in smh quoting Greg Harris former RUPA president about dangers of relying on nzru and trans Tasman Comp as salvation which completely agree with. As remember under o’neil there was a blueprint for trans Tasman Comp but nz over ruled to keep South Africa in and hence the expansion plan.

I actually have zero confidence in Nzru as much as RA to negotiate and create as successful trans Tasman competition and hence actually very attracted to private equity and twiggy type interventions as neither nzru or RA are remotely qualified to design and oversee the running of a successful pro rugby competition.

Furthermore as the article states which I agree with nzru has self interest first and successful collaboration a distant last for oz rugby interests so pinning hopes on trans competition negotiated by RA with NZRU as our salvation is naive thinking imho.

 

[Quick Hands]

There was article in smh quoting Greg Harris former RUPA president about dangers of relying on nzru and trans Tasman Comp as salvation which completely agree with. As remember under o’neil there was a blueprint for trans Tasman Comp but nz over ruled to keep South Africa in and hence the expansion plan.

I actually have zero confidence in Nzru as much as RA to negotiate and create as successful trans Tasman competition and hence actually very attracted to private equity and twiggy type interventions as neither nzru or RA are remotely qualified to design and oversee the running of a successful pro rugby competition.

Furthermore as the article states which I agree with nzru has self interest first and successful collaboration a distant last for oz rugby interests so pinning hopes on trans competition negotiated by RA with NZRU as our salvation is naive thinking imho.

We're an independent country and we should be standing on our own two feet. I agree 100% that any arrangement which ties us to NZRU and allows them to be involved in deciding how we run competitions reduces us to a subservient role.

NZRU will natrually put their own self-interest first and foremost. It's not in their interest for professional rugby in Australia to collapse, but nor is it in their interests for professional rugby in Australia to get its act together and challenge NZ on a regular basis. Their interest is in keeping us strong enough to provide some competition, but weak enough never to be a threat to their dominance.

As JT Lang said almost a century ago...............

 

[KOB1987]

How good! Well at least rugby got the jump on NRL and AFL with regards to real crowds and real noise, as opposed to cardboard cutouts and fake noise. Not to mention not taking a fucking knee.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Watching the game and I cannot help but think a domestic competition would suit NZ just as much as it would us. If PE is looking to get involved then both nations should pitch separate 8 team domestic leagues and a Cup competition with intent to link up with Japan in that structure. Assuming whatever professional tier Japan settles on runs somewhat in the same window. Which there is suggestion that it will.

Run the Cup competition as 8 pools of 3 playing home and away with games interspersed throughout the domestic structures. Something like. Three rounds of the domestic. Two rounds of Cup. This would see each team involved playing 20 games a season and importantly hosting 10 revenue generating home games. It would give each nation their Champion while still leveraging the international nature of the game.

It would provide PE with a solid mixture of competitiveness and access to markets.

 

[rugboy]

Watching the game and I cannot help but think a domestic competition would suit NZ just as much as it would us. If PE is looking to get involved then both nations should pitch separate 8 team domestic leagues and a Cup competition with intent to link up with Japan in that structure. Assuming whatever professional tier Japan settles on runs somewhat in the same window. Which there is suggestion that it will.

Run the Cup competition as 8 pools of 3 playing home and away with games interspersed throughout the domestic structures. Something like. Three rounds of the domestic. Two rounds of Cup. This would see each team involved playing 20 games a season and importantly hosting 10 revenue generating home games. It would give each nation their Champion while still leveraging the international nature of the game.

It would provide PE with a solid mixture of competitiveness and access to markets.

How would Oz find the players to support 8 competitive teams? We don’t have enough for 4 teams. This would weaken the whole competition if they would further spread and compromise the overall product. Making it even less appealing to PE and/or broadcasters.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

How would Oz find the players to support 8 competitive teams? We don’t have enough for 4 teams. This would weaken the whole competition if they would further spread and compromise the overall product. Making it even less appealing to PE and/or broadcasters.

We manage to find enough for the NRC. Plus, there's playing overseas. And not every player needs to be Wallabies eligible.

 

[half]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...to-super-rugby-expansion-20170922-gyn5t9.html

The above article is over two years old and its so so so interesting that everything predicted in this article and it goes back in the article to 2009 came true. My body crawls and my mind screams at the people we have had in charge over the decades.

This is the opening to the article... A veteran sports consultant who twice warned the Australian Rugby Union that under no circumstances should it agree to an expanded 18-team Super Rugby competition says the governing body has only itself to blame for "signing their death knell" despite talking up next year's new structure.

 

[Ignoto]

The above article is over two years old and its so so so interesting that everything predicted in this article and it goes back in the article to 2009 came true. My body crawls and my mind screams at the people we have had in charge over the decades.

Just remember, anyone who tells you that we should readily jump back in bed with Fox, blindly forgets how Newscorp were pushing for John O'Neill to be appointed as Clyne's replacement - https://www.theaustralian.com.au/bu...e/news-story/df5dadf4de2db7814c133dbe03cabdb8