Where to for Super Rugby?

[Rugbynutter39]

Hell you going to be pissed when TT starts with your hatred of watching NZ teams RN

Personally ,if I had dream comp (but it won't happen) I would have about a 8-10 team comp in NZ , Aus could have whatever suits them ( a streamlined NRC?), and then have a champion's league at end where a couple of teams from different comps can qualify. I wouldn't worry about a TT or anything, could have a North/ South game etc after. That would suit what I personally would need for rugby, and actually when you think of it if NZ are actually going to help 2 PI teams into our comp, we only one team away from it here, another team in SI or something (Tasman?) could make it happen. That kind of a fantasy thing I know, and will not happen I don't think either Rugby boards that know what is required want that, and even Brad Thorn is saying how badly he wants TT to happen etc.
In reality for a comp to work it needs to be a full 10-12 team, everyone playing everyone and (RN you can just watch the Aus derbies) , and I think this is how it will end up. I think TV money will decide that.
No matter what happens I will be watching whatever the comp is, I watch almost all games from both comps now (as well as NH rugby whenever I get chance) so perhaps my opinion won't count.
Sent a message to mate who was at Reds game Sat (I saw him on tv in crowd), he was saying he enjoying the comp, but even he (a Reds full memeber of very long standing) didn't know if he would be interested without more teams in next year or so.

I don’t hate watching kiwi teams as stated look forward to when oz teams play them but just stating fact that like most rugby oz followers outside of serious rusted on not interested or priority to watch local kiwi derbies. No different to some kiwis on here who say they only watch Ao and not Au.

I think though collaboration between nz and oz would be better so have even number of teams so could then play TT as planned ie equal number of teams playing off as our challenge is too small a market to just rely on champions league style games.

 

[Dan54]

I don’t hate watching kiwi teams as stated look forward to when oz teams play them but just stating fact that like most rugby oz followers outside of serious rusted on not interested or priority to watch local kiwi derbies. No different to some kiwis on here who say they only watch Ao and not Au.

I think though collaboration between nz and oz would be better so have even number of teams so could then play TT as planned ie equal number of teams playing off as our challenge is too small a market to just rely on champions league style games.

Yeah mate I just giving your leg a gentle tug!
And I understand what you mean about equal teams etc, I just saying in my fantasy world, in that Aus would also have a good robust comp. It was no way a dig at what we got now. Or either comp, which I think at moment both are ok as I usually watch them both even though it means staying up until midnight. But as you may realise I a rugby tragic and probably need to get a life

 

[Derpus]

I wonder how SRao solve the Crusaders problem. 10 years of them winning with ease will get tiresome fast.

 

[Rebel man]

Can’t help but feel we would be better to continue with separate super rugby au and ao competitions and then for second half have trans Tasman. We add Fiji and kiwis add the Auckland based islander team so 6 team domestic Comp and 12 team trans Tasman and over time both add two teams (say western Sydney and second qld team or Singapore team) and then have 8 team domestic Comp and 16 trans Tasman. As we (RA) can exert better control to ensure 8 teams on par in domestic competition but can’t influence nz to ensure even trans Tasman Comp (eg open borders policy) for integrity of competition.

I feel may be too late but I really would rather the above so always have domestic champion and not beholden to competitive issues with trans Tasman nz teams in short term whilst rebuild as not remotely in our interests to shrink the footprint so can be on par with nz sides who have greater depth without evening up in other ways. As if can’t do latter ie reducing over reliance on trans Tasman then we increase risks our fans turning off and moving back to a code in crisis.

The problem is a provincial comp doesn’t readily allow for a second side in NSW and Queensland and a side in Singapore will just be a money pit

 

[Rugbynutter39]

The problem is a provincial comp doesn’t readily allow for a second side in NSW and Queensland and a side in Singapore will just be a money pit

On current environment I would agree hence longer term vision that would require catalyst for change eg private equity investment and / or we grow the game through connections with wider ecosystem ie things like trans Tasman or champions league tie up with Japan etc. hence short term at best we look at 6 team competition with trans Tasman in second half of season

 

[Dan54]

I wonder how SRao solve the Crusaders problem. 10 years of them winning with ease will get tiresome fast.

Mate we had Auckland dominate during 80s, you know what? I don't think it that bad, nothing a kiwi rugby team or fan likes is knocking over the team that looking unbeatable. I had mate who played for the Mighty Nua in a shield challenge against the said Auckland team, flew yp to Auckland etc on the day, played a team that had the Brookes, Kirwan ,Whettons in etc, and reckon was highlight of his playing career. Nothing like having a target. Beside if things keep going Blues will be snapping at them over next few years. It's not a problem, and one other thing tends to lead to a better AB team too I think.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yeah mate I just giving your leg a gentle tug!
And I understand what you mean about equal teams etc, I just saying in my fantasy world, in that Aus would also have a good robust comp. It was no way a dig at what we got now. Or either comp, which I think at moment both are ok as I usually watch them both even though it means staying up until midnight. But as you may realise I a rugby tragic and probably need to get a life

I think both are ok as you say but both need each other for the second part of the season (or to create a longer season) as both will get stale if just rely on current status quo - that is why really like best of both worlds as I actually agree if all play nicely minimum best viable option is to have both domestic comp and trans Tasman for growth then just own domestic comps.

I think (or maybe more hopeful) nzru coming to that realisation which I think RA always had but also maybe latter also seeing that a half way house solution may actually be better then all in strategy. I think we need this to vary the product to be more competitive to other codes and offer point of difference. Bit like cricket creating multiple products that have some of same players playing to support fan interest and growth.

We need to be more innovative in this way which i feel already seeing with new Stan / nine deal eg broadcast of club rugby where discussions are on changing games to Friday night and Sundays to accomodate broadcast and viewer interests

 

[dru]

It is a pipe dream to think that the Super Au teams will match the overall standard of the the Super Ao teams in anything other than the medium to long term. And that would be pre-supposing that an effective plan was put in place. Which in turn would entail that the Aussie teams are NOT pulverised regularly by Kiwi teams.

It is also a pipe dream to think that NZR will actively assist a levelling of the playing field to help solve that problem on a competition-wide basis.

It means that a push back to a TT Super is completely a retrograde step for Australia.

By all means run a shorter length end of domestic season TT. One or two Aus teams are likely to go deep into a comp like this which would be enough to keep public interest up.

We should not be placing all bets on to red 6 of the roulette wheel of NZR rugby interests.

 

[Dan54]

It is also a pipe dream to think that NZR will actively assist a levelling of the playing field to help solve that problem on a competition-wide basis.

I take it by that comment you talking about NZ players in Aus teams thing again, well they cam now, but not ABs atc.
But anyway not going there as I think
a: The way forward if there is a problem is to just strengthen Aus rugby, not water down NZ teams by sending players to Aus
b: I not as convinced as you lot seem to be that Aus teams are off the pace.
And to add see my reply to this
Derpus said: ↑

I wonder how SRao solve the Crusaders problem. 10 years of them winning with ease will get tiresome fast.​

When Auckland in 80s, and now the Crusaders are very strong in NZ comp, rather than asking them to spread their players around, the rest of the NZ teams don't ask to have their players, they look at how they can get better themselves.
I still believe that is probably the big difference between us and our attitude to the game, we don't really want other teams/countries to fix our problems, up to us to get better. That is not a dig or anything , but how I see it. We all need wherever we are to stand on our feet!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Commencement date for Trans-Tasman travel bubble to be announced on 6 April.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/po...travel-bubble-date-to-be-announced-on-april-6

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It is a pipe dream to think that the Super Au teams will match the overall standard of the the Super Ao teams in anything other than the medium to long term. And that would be pre-supposing that an effective plan was put in place. Which in turn would entail that the Aussie teams are NOT pulverised regularly by Kiwi teams.

It is also a pipe dream to think that NZR will actively assist a levelling of the playing field to help solve that problem on a competition-wide basis.

It means that a push back to a TT Super is completely a retrograde step for Australia.

By all means run a shorter length end of domestic season TT. One or two Aus teams are likely to go deep into a comp like this which would be enough to keep public interest up.

We should not be placing all bets on to red 6 of the roulette wheel of NZR rugby interests.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It is a pipe dream to think that the Super Au teams will match the overall standard of the the Super Ao teams in anything other than the medium to long term. And that would be pre-supposing that an effective plan was put in place. Which in turn would entail that the Aussie teams are NOT pulverised regularly by Kiwi teams.

It is also a pipe dream to think that NZR will actively assist a levelling of the playing field to help solve that problem on a competition-wide basis.

It means that a push back to a TT Super is completely a retrograde step for Australia.

By all means run a shorter length end of domestic season TT. One or two Aus teams are likely to go deep into a comp like this which would be enough to keep public interest up.

We should not be placing all bets on to red 6 of the roulette wheel of NZR rugby interests.

I can’t help but agree with you sadly on that...we are probably better to hence evolve the second part of the season to some sort of champions league also involving Japan that all teams can participate. Heck if Japan were in the same time zone I reckon they would be who we would want to partner with for a competition that would better support establishing wider footprint and growth in Asia’s pacific rugby market.

 

[I like to watch]

It is a pipe dream to think that the Super Au teams will match the overall standard of the the Super Ao teams in anything other than the medium to long term. And that would be pre-supposing that an effective plan was put in place. Which in turn would entail that the Aussie teams are NOT pulverised regularly by Kiwi teams.

It is also a pipe dream to think that NZR will actively assist a levelling of the playing field to help solve that problem on a competition-wide basis.

It means that a push back to a TT Super is completely a retrograde step for Australia.

By all means run a shorter length end of domestic season TT. One or two Aus teams are likely to go deep into a comp like this which would be enough to keep public interest up.

We should not be placing all bets on to red 6 of the roulette wheel of NZR rugby interests.

Ridiculous post.
everyone knows 6 is black!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I take it by that comment you talking about NZ players in Aus teams thing again, well they cam now, but not ABs atc.
But anyway not going there as I think
a: The way forward if there is a problem is to just strengthen Aus rugby, not water down NZ teams by sending players to Aus
b: I not as convinced as you lot seem to be that Aus teams are off the pace.
And to add see my reply to this
Derpus said: ↑

I wonder how SRao solve the Crusaders problem. 10 years of them winning with ease will get tiresome fast.​

When Auckland in 80s, and now the Crusaders are very strong in NZ comp, rather than asking them to spread their players around, the rest of the NZ teams don't ask to have their players, they look at how they can get better themselves.
I still believe that is probably the big difference between us and our attitude to the game, we don't really want other teams/countries to fix our problems, up to us to get better. That is not a dig or anything , but how I see it. We all need wherever we are to stand on our feet!

Nah Dan I just don’t like creating a competition that creates risks of gaps between top and bottom teams. AFL manages this by having draft where lower teams get priority draft picks. We need mechanisms to support a wider footprint and avoid wide disparity in teams because one country has more player depth etc. We need this to grow the game in the region and sure if nzru does not want to play ball on this oz needs to not put all its eggs in TT basket. Let’s not debate nzru’s right to stick to closed border policy but rather acknowledge the point that hence RA in my view should hence be reticent to go all in with TT without other mechanisms to ensure team equalisation or over reliance on TT. I think most oz supporters see with the Force back and wider footprint that we don’t want to go back to shrinking our footprint and relevance of pro rugby across Australia.

And despite wanting to play nz teams we don’t want to do that if it means taking oz rugby backwards to meet nzru rugby interests

 

[dru]

Bottom line on all of this is that NZR have shown nothing in the last 12-18 months to suggest they are a trusted friend, and PLENTY to suggest we should be highly suspicious of anything they put forward.

Can not be trusted.

We should completely go it alone, other than a cross over - where and ONLY WHERE the proposal as it is put forward suits us.

Sadly I suspect we will head down "all bets on black 6". (Thanks for the correction ILTW, and it adds a nice twist to the concept.)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Bottom line on all of this is that NZR have shown nothing in the last 12-18 months to suggest they are a trusted friend, and PLENTY to suggest we should be highly suspicious of anything they put forward.

Can not be trusted.

We should completely go it alone, other than a cross over - where and ONLY WHERE the proposal as it is put forward suits us.

Sadly I suspect we will head down "all bets on black 6". (Thanks for the correction ILTW, and it adds a nice twist to the concept.)

I would agree complete trust in nzru as a partner given events over last 12 months would be dangerous but I think we have to try and see if we can do something with nz hence comfortable with current approach this season being the model ie first half our own domestic season and second half TT.

We work with nz to try and make this TT successful product and if does not work with refocus on our own domestic competition and look at alternative products to supplement eg. Champions league with Japan, state of union etc etc.

I think we would be crazy not to try to see if a shortened TT competition could work but would be equally crazy to go all in when got a (domestic) product we know is working and have some control over (and master of our own destiny) vs a TT product that is uncertain of success, less likely to have control over and/ or (likely) risks of not being treated as equal partner and/or (highly possible) risks TT be used to our detriment to purely promote nzru and nz rugby interests.

 

[dru]

I think we would be crazy not to try to see if a shortened TT competition could work but....

I'm completely onboard for and end of season between domestic and international for a TT. Enthusiastic even. RA, just don't take away our domestic comp.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'm completely onboard for and end of season between domestic and international for a TT. Enthusiastic even. RA, just don't take away our domestic comp.

+101

 

[hoggy]

I'm completely onboard for and end of season between domestic and international for a TT. Enthusiastic even. RA, just don't take away our domestic comp.

Pretty much agree with this 100%, look at all sort of options with TT and champions league. But not at the expense of our domestic competition.

 

[Derpus]

It would be great if we could bring in the Drua - three games a weekend verse two is a big improvement.