Where to for Super Rugby?

[half]

This is the catch 22 the game faces here, yes the Wallabies generate the interest, but the whole set up of the game here essentially ensures this, and how much of that is due to the lack of excitement in Super rugby.

Can the code here seriously expect not just to survive but grow when from July on-wards you are pretty much just playing Test rugby, you can't grow the game from the top down. You may excite your fan base, but your not going to grow it with just Test rugby.

Super rugby from Feb to June & then test rugby from July on-wards is IMO opinion a slow decline to obscurity as we are already witnessing, because neither competitions are designed to attract new fans.

Hoggy you don't know how right you are, as Al Baxter said on the podcast you simply can't fund and grow a code on 12 annual test matches with normally 4 played overseas.

George Harrison when still with the Beatles penned a classic in ""While my guitar gently Weeps"""

Today I read a AFR article that brought Harrison's classic came to mind. Recently I have gone on and on and on and on and on and on and on, about the need to look for rugby folk with money willing to invest in sport and provide their expertise.

Actually there is still a chance here as this bid my not get up.

I have repeatedly said Twiggy is not alone.

Hoggy I will only copy part and then let you open the article if you like. But a rugby fan and potential is going to fund an A-League bid.

From the AFR read, then weep, then think if Twiggy, Walker and others got together .

https://www.afr.com/business/sport/...new-club-in-sydneys-southwest-20180607-h112nh

Billionaire Lang Walker admits to being more a rugby union fan, but he says he can see a good business reason for backing a bid for a new A-League soccer club in Sydney's south-west.
Walker this week revealed he would fund a bid for a licence for the Macarthur region, a fast-growing area set to have 1 million people living there within 15 years.


His Walker Corporation, which has more than $2 billion worth of property investments on its balance sheet, would provide some funding for the team and also have substantial input in the upgrade of the Campbelltown Stadium

 

[wamberal]

Given the number of wealthy people who claim to be rugby supporters, one would think that a lot more benefactors might have put up some dosh.


How many have there been? The first one that I remember is, or was, David Clarke, who stumped up $7 million or so to bail out NSWRU in the aftermath of the Ken Elphick fiasco. Then there is a long gap to the Sukkars, who are still with us.

Then poor old Harold Mitchell, who lost a small fortune launching the Rabbles.

Have there been any others, apart from Twiggy?

I hope I have missed some. But I suspect that if we wait for rich benefactors to put their hands in their pockets we will be seriously disappointed.

 

[Aurelius]

Given the number of wealthy people who claim to be rugby supporters, one would think that a lot more benefactors might have put up some dosh.


How many have there been? The first one that I remember is, or was, David Clarke, who stumped up $7 million or so to bail out NSWRU in the aftermath of the Ken Elphick fiasco. Then there is a long gap to the Sukkars, who are still with us.

Then poor old Harold Mitchell, who lost a small fortune launching the Rabbles.

Have there been any others, apart from Twiggy?

I hope I have missed some. But I suspect that if we wait for rich benefactors to put their hands in their pockets we will be
seriously disappointed.

And what would those rich benefactors have gotten for their money? A seat on the board at most?

There's a difference between a "rich benefactor" bailing out NSWRU and getting nothing for it and a billionaire businessman like Lang Walker making a bid to own an A-League franchise. You're quite right in one sense. There's no point holding out for billionaires making donations to rugby as an act of philanthropy. But offer entrepreneurs the opportunity to buy a rugby club (and run it with minimal interference), and you might well find a few more prepared to open their wallets.

 

[lou75]

I wouldn't worry too much about "poor" old Harold Mitchell - he knew or should have known what he was getting into when he gave Gary Gray carte blanche to spend his money.
As far as Twiggy goes, he seems to be doing a hell of a lot more than just pumping some money into a club - he is reinventing the rugby landscape .
We need more people like Twiggy and less resistance from RA

 

[wamberal]

What we need is benefactors who understand the game. It is not for sale, to Twiggy, or anybody else.



Rugby is an international game whose governing body is in Dublin. The governing body of the game here is Rugby Australia.


If Twiggy accepts this, maybe he can achieve something. If he decides that he wants to slash and burn, in an attempt to "take over", or to destroy the existing infrastructure of the game here, he will probably end up destroying it. Rebels and all.

 

[Aurelius]

What we need is benefactors who understand the game. It is not for sale, to Twiggy, or anybody else.



Rugby is an international game whose governing body is in Dublin. The governing body of the game here is Rugby Australia.


If Twiggy accepts this, maybe he can achieve something. If he decides that he wants to slash and burn, in an attempt to "take over", or to destroy the existing infrastructure of the game here, he will probably end up destroying it. Rebels and all.

Yes, yes. Clearly it's unthinkable that Australian rugby teams should be available to be owned by private individuals like they are in France, or like football clubs are in Europe (or Australia for that matter), or T20 teams are in India. Why, all we need are for rugby-loving billionaires to give generously to inept administrators and all our problems would be solved.

Except that according to you, the headwinds facing Australian rugby are so huge that nothing anyone can do can reverse the tide, so those benefactors you think ought to be doing more for the game they love may as well just save their money for some other philanthropic cause.

By the way, nothing I've heard from Twiggy indicates that he wants to "slash and burn," destroy RA or deny the ultimate authority of the IRU over the international game. In fact, it seems to me that he's been doing everything he can to go through the proper channels to get World Series Rugby up and running. On the other hand, it's yet to be seen whether or not RA are willing to help him succeed.

 

[RugbyReg]

Isn’t the Australian Rugby Foundation largely funded by rich business people? Would like to know some figures but I’ve heard of some substantial grassroots investment from them.

 

[TheHam]

Isn’t the Australian Rugby Foundation largely funded by rich business people? Would like to know some figures but I’ve heard of some substantial grassroots investment from them.

All up $850k in grants for 2017

http://www.australianrugbyfoundation.org.au/Library/ARF2017Review.aspx

 

[RugbyReg]

Right. Not much at all. I’ve heard some interesting plans for next year around funding for competitions for non-traditional schools.

 

[hoggy]

It must be very hard to look at grassroots funding, schools and the whole structure when the code is at a complete loss because of the failure of the top level, dis regard a few wins by the Wallabies and Super teams, it is now clear just how limited any future growth can occur with the present set up.

Realistically where will the game be in 5-10 years, how can it be any more popular than it is now, especially since opposition codes are cashed up and have proven growth strategies.

How can Super rugby and the Wallabies deliver something that they have failed to deliver over the last 20 years, you can't base it all on a win everything strategy.

In many ways the Irish series may highlight the issues this structure faces, great exciting rugby and they may even win the series, but how do you take advantage of that.

 

[wamberal]

Try asking some friends who follow other codes why they prefer them to our game.


As I have pointed out many times, the "proven growth strategies" of AFL and NRL are based primarily upon the fact that they are both designed for, and run by and for, and owned by Australia and Australians. The popularity of the games predates and causes the expansion.


Both have been professional to some extent for many years. Rugby lost heaps of our best players, particularly during the sixties, seventies, and eighties. During those years league was heavily subsidised by poker machines, every club had one. A lot of damage was done during those years.


Then came the dawn, open professionalism. Our own World Cup in Australia. Super Rugby drawing big crowds and good ratings. What should we have done? One thing for sure is that the ARC should have been supported by us all. IMHO that is probably the biggest missed opportunity.


We need to be realistic as a code. We need to set achievable objectives, then work together cooperatively to achieve what is achievable. Pie in the sky is not achievable.

 

[Strewthcobber]

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/06/11/super-rugby-2019-draw


Next year's draw released

SANZAAR sprung the announcement on Tuesday morning, almost three months earlier than the usual unveiling, with venue details still yet to be confirmed for each match.

The competition will kick off a week earlier next year for Australian teams and run uninterrupted for 21 weeks, with the World Cup to follow the provincial competition.

Aside from those tweaks, the tournament will run similarly to this season's, with a three-conference, 15-team format, with eight finalists including three conference winners and five wildcard teams.

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[dru]

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2018/06/11/super-rugby-2019-draw


Next year's draw released



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Tell me I'm wrong. No game between any NZ and Aus team the weekend either side of ANZAC day. If I'm right, I'd say that's us told.

And I seriously can't be bothered digging in to the schedule after that.

 

[hoggy]

Tell me I'm wrong. No game between any NZ and Aus team the weekend either side of ANZAC day. If I'm right, I'd say that's us told.

And I seriously can't be bothered digging in to the schedule after that.

You have to remember all Super rugby is about is preparing a Test team the Wallabies, it has nothing to do with the small inconvenient fact of growing a fan base.

 

[wamberal]

You have to remember all Super rugby is about is preparing a Test team the Wallabies, it has nothing to do with the small inconvenient fact of growing a fan base.

All Super Rugby is about is getting some Australian rugby onto Australian television. Something for actual and potential fans to watch either at home, or at the ground.

It does provide a second tier of rugby in this country, which is essential for maintenance of a fan base.


And, yes, without it the Wallabies would not be as strong as they are. Number three in the world is not too shabby. What would our "fan base" look like if they were running 6th or so?

 

[I like to watch]

And, yes, without it the Wallabies would not be as strong as they are. Number three in the world is not too shabby. What would our "fan base" look like if they were running 6th or so?

Comparing our investment in grassroots to other nations,we'll know soon enough.

 

[John S]

All Super Rugby is about is getting some Australian rugby onto Australian television. Something for actual and potential fans to watch either at home, or at the ground.

It does provide a second tier of rugby in this country, which is essential for maintenance of a fan base.


And, yes, without it the Wallabies would not be as strong as they are. Number three in the world is not too shabby. What would our "fan base" look like if they were running 6th or so?

Weren't we down there not long ago? (Maybe 5th at worst)

I don't think our fan base would look much different, we'd probably lose the "fair weather" fans (if we haven't already)

 

[hoggy]

All Super Rugby is about is getting some Australian rugby onto Australian television. Something for actual and potential fans to watch either at home, or at the ground.

It does provide a second tier of rugby in this country, which is essential for maintenance of a fan base.

And, yes, without it the Wallabies would not be as strong as they are. Number three in the world is not too shabby. What would our "fan base" look like if they were running 6th or so?

But it doesn't get us on TV, it restricts the code to a pay TV operator, it ensures that rugby has little bargaining power to the extent that the only option the game has is adding endless content to pay the bills resulting in things like starting the season in the middle of February, uno when everyone's at the beach.

Yes it does provide a second tier, a second tier that has proven close to a disaster in maintaining that fan base

The Wallabies have averaged 2-5th in the world rankings for the last 15-20 years. What has that done to our fan base.

 

[wamberal]

But it doesn't get us on TV, it restricts the code to a pay TV operator, it ensures that rugby has little bargaining power to the extent that the only option the game has is adding endless content to pay the bills resulting in things like starting the season in the middle of February, uno when everyone's at the beach.

Yes it does provide a second tier, a second tier that has proven close to a disaster in maintaining that fan base

The Wallabies have averaged 2-5th in the world rankings for the last 15-20 years. What has that done to our fan base.

Look, nobody disagrees that things are crook. But are you suggesting that everything would have been okay if only we had stayed out of Super Rugby?


My memory is not what it used to be, but I seem to recall that Super Rugby was actually bloody successful, for quite a long while, good crowds and not bad ratings.


It is easy to look back and make criticisms with the benefit of hindsight. What we can never, ever, know is what an alternative scenario would have achieved. The expansion of the competition was a gamble which did not pay off. Again, we do not know, and will probably never know, the advice and possibly expert opinion on which those decisions were made.


We can probably all agree that the sabotaging of the ARC, by the Sydney Clubs, and, let it be whispered, by the Victorians who allegedly went way over budget on their expenses, was a great pity.

 

[dru]

Look, nobody disagrees that things are crook. But are you suggesting that everything would have been okay if only we had stayed out of Super Rugby?

Certainly there were glory days in Super Rugby. Great times, rugby took a leap forward.

Unfortunately it is no longer where we are. The question is "where to", not "where from". So Wam, you can relax on your memory cells and allow them to continue feeding memories of good times and success.

But in going forward let's not limit our thinking to the only the planning from that organisation - which has also planned us into the debacle we are now in.