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Where to for Super Rugby?

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waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Don't underestimate (as many do) the strength of the spiritual and historic bonds between NZ rugby and SA rugby. It is THE rivalry in southern hemisphere rugby (certainly in both of their minds). In both cases their natural instinct is to bond together and play each other as often as possible.

As even the article posted above by hoggy acknowledges, a trans-Tasman competition is highly unlikely at best. Both the NZRU and the SARU have said time and again that they want to play each other on a regular basis. A trans-Tasman competition can't exist in that circumstance.

That's still somewhat true for people of my age (50ish) & older but there's now a generation of NZ fans who don't see the SA rivalry as being that big of a deal (presumably the same is true for SA fans). Once those people become the decision makers in the various stakeholder groups I can see the NZ/ SA relationship becoming far more tenuous & rapidly so. Or to put it another way, when Gen Me inherit the Earth they'll just go where the money is.
 

Rebels3

Jim Lenehan (48)
My extended family is kiwi, from experience those under 30/35 have a far greater affiliation with aus than SA. It’s the big brother/little brother dynamic. I’d say SA defines the relationship at a greater level than NZ does, although the general rule is still SA is king when it comes to rivals at this current time. The Bledisloe is still the most sort after silverware away from the World Cup
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
My extended family is kiwi, from experience those under 30/35 have a far greater affiliation with aus than SA. It’s the big brother/little brother dynamic. I’d say SA defines the relationship at a greater level than NZ does, although the general rule is still SA is king when it comes to rivals at this current time. The Bledisloe is still the most sort after silverware away from the World Cup
Remind me: what does it feel like to win the bledisloe?
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
Like beyond wow. From SMH.

Australian rugby is on the brink of “sinking without a trace” and New Zealand Rugby should seriously consider pushing for another reduction in teams across the ditch, or entertain the possibility of playing its own competition.
That is the view of one New Zealand rugby columnist who has stuck the boot into Australian rugby on the eve a critical weekend for the code in this country.

Tough times: Waratahs Michael Hooper and Bernard Foley.
Photo: SNPA
Australian Super Rugby teams are in the middle of a 36-game losing drought against New Zealand opposition and have the chance to snap that streak this weekend.
The Melbourne Rebels host the Crusaders on Friday, while the NSW Waratahs take on the struggling Blues at Brookvale on Saturday evening.
New Zealand Herald columnist Gregor Paul has slammed Australian rugby in a piece published on Friday, saying that if the Waratahs lose to the Blues, who have won two games from nine attempts this season, the situation will become “hopeless”.


“If the sequence isn't broken this weekend then it will be time for New Zealand Rugby to genuinely question whether they want any attachment to a vessel that is clearly sinking without a trace,” Paul wrote.
“But three wins in three years is not a bad run so much as confirmation that rugby in Australia has set course for oblivion and intends to be in a thousand pieces by the time it arrives.
“It really will be that bad. The thread to which Australian rugby is clinging will snap and their place in the Super Rugby universe should be seen as tenuous.
“Australian rugby will become the sort of thing to keep an eye out for in car boot sales: its only value being nostalgic, it's only interested buyers the old time tragics who can remember the days when the Reds and Brumbies used to scare other teams with the talent at their disposal.”
The SANZAAR broadcast agreement ends after the 2020 season and there is scope for another change to the Super Rugby competition structure.

At present there are five New Zealand, four Australian and four South African teams, as well as one Japanese and one Argentinian side.
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The view from New Zealand is that perhaps world rugby’s most powerful nation might have to look after itself.
“The question won't be why give them four Super Rugby teams, but why give them any at all?” Paul wrote. "NZR can't ignore what is staring them in the face - which is, that allowing Australia to retain four teams in Super Rugby is maybe not wise.
“NZR's generosity might have to end. They have, after all, killed their own provincial competition in the last 20 years to allow Australia to build theirs.

“They have fairly shared the millions in Super Rugby TV revenue even though the Kiwi teams are the ones which have the vast majority of the audience and they indulged the ARU when they wanted to put a team in Melbourne and then in Perth.
“To go suddenly cold on Australia may seem like a radical departure from the current thinking, but maybe not so much as NZR appear hellbent on making Super Rugby a procession of games between New Zealand teams.”
Some off-field drama in Australian rugby this year also got a mention in the column.
“This week one of their most senior and best educated Wallabies dressed up as a cow and disgraced himself and captain Michael Hooper failed to make any reassuring noises about being interested in the five-year, one million dollars a season deal he has reportedly been offered," Paul wrote.
"The whole Israel Folau business, where he has managed to alienate vast tracts of the population, drag rugby back to the dark ages and still avoid any official reprimand, [solves] the mystery of whether player or executive holds the power across the Tasman.”
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...t-a-trace-kiwi-columnist-20180504-p4zdfl.html
 

Micheal

Alan Cameron (40)
Like beyond wow. From SMH.


When I joined this forum, and up until this year, I was proudly one of the most optimistic posters going about.

This season, the Rebels loss tonight, and the fact that WSR appears to be potentially viable has absolutely convinced me that Super Rugby has nothing to offer Australia apart from the funds to prolong the inevitable.

Cutting another team wouldn't even help. Our best players simply aren't as good as New Zealand's squad fillers. People are overly idealistic - we can't return to the 90s. We're not good enough and the interest isn't there. Realism is needed here, and that involves taking several steps backwards to give the game a future in this country.

I'm currently living in Berlin and having recently moved here, I can't help but ask why the fuck I dedicated 2+ hours to watch a game of Super Rugby this morning, when I could be out exploring an exceptionally vibrant and interesting city.

To be honest, if I was still in Sydney, I'd probably be asking myself the same thing. I don't have the energy to watch my beloved Tahs get thumped by a shit Blues tomorrow and then sodomised by an incredible Crusaders next week.

I'm signing off from Super Rugby for the rest of the season. Burn it all down and start again. Bring on the NRC, 2019s WSR and whatever comes post 2020.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
When I joined this forum, and up until this year, I was proudly one of the most optimistic posters going about.

This season, the Rebels loss tonight, and the fact that WSR appears to be potentially viable has absolutely convinced me that Super Rugby has nothing to offer Australia apart from the funds to prolong the inevitable.

I'm currently living in Berlin and having recently moved here, I can't help but ask why the fuck I dedicated 2+ hours to watch a game of Super Rugby this morning, when I could be out exploring an exceptionally vibrant and interesting city.

To be honest, if I was still in Sydney, I'd probably be asking myself the same thing. I don't have the energy to watch my beloved Tahs get thumped by a shit Blues tomorrow and then sodomised by an incredible Crusaders next week.

I'm signing off from Super Rugby for the rest of the season. Burn it all down and start again. Bring on the NRC, 2019s WSR and whatever comes post 2020.

I haven't watched a game live or on TV all year. A couple of times I've been out and caught parts of games, and that was bad enough. I'm a SFS member, so I get in for free and I still won't go. Brookvale Oval is 5 minutes from my front door and you wouldn't get me there tomorrow night if you paid me.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
When I joined this forum, and up until this year, I was proudly one of the most optimistic posters going about.



This season, the Rebels loss tonight, and the fact that WSR appears to be potentially viable has absolutely convinced me that Super Rugby has nothing to offer Australia apart from the funds to prolong the inevitable.



Cutting another team wouldn't even help. Our best players simply aren't as good as New Zealand's squad fillers. People are overly idealistic - we can't return to the 90s. We're not good enough and the interest isn't there. Realism is needed here, and that involves taking several steps backwards to give the game a future in this country.



I'm currently living in Berlin and having recently moved here, I can't help but ask why the fuck I dedicated 2+ hours to watch a game of Super Rugby this morning, when I could be out exploring an exceptionally vibrant and interesting city.



To be honest, if I was still in Sydney, I'd probably be asking myself the same thing. I don't have the energy to watch my beloved Tahs get thumped by a shit Blues tomorrow and then sodomised by an incredible Crusaders next week.



I'm signing off from Super Rugby for the rest of the season. Burn it all down and start again. Bring on the NRC, 2019s WSR and whatever comes post 2020.


This is the thing Michael, people like me tried to temper your idealistic optimism and we were pointing out these facts to you. Now you can no longer maintain the optimism the backlash is huge and you lose perspective the other way. I have always argued that the potential of our players is as good as any other nation. What we do not do is train and develop our players. NO, ZERO, NIL, Australian player is better in core skill execution (excepting scrummaging props) than the day they left school. They do not learn the skills in game and training week in week out at a lower level to bed them in. They are then unable to execute anything under pressure so coaches in a short intense Super season are left with pretty skill less players, but still the best in the country, and have to dumb down the game plan and take no risks in the hope of being able to "build pressure". Part of its structure of contracting and removing the potential elite players from the Club game when they would be developing in depth skills, part is coaches being fed on "structure" by the ARU coaching manual developed nearly 20 years ago by Macqueen and then Jones and it is a safe fall back with unskilled players and a third part is a general fascination in Australia with KPI based assessments and being more driven by achieving obscure milestones that may or may not have any real impact on real world results, but as long as you make those milestones (which BTW are totally stats driven) results are always somebody else's problem and we end up at the Hickey/Foley argument that on the stats they won most of the games that in the real world they lost.

My arguments has always been with a limited budget and dwindling supporter base we had to retreat to a strength position and actually start fixing the base systems, that means skills are developed at the clubs, Coaches and Players. The NRC is not a development competition, it does nothing except waste money and social capital. It will be dead in another year or two, from both lack of funds and interest, because it is a nothing, no history no fan buy in and little wider support except from the optimists and idealists.

Change also has to start with the ARU board, that means that every single board member and executive must go. They have presided over the calamity that Australian Rugby has come to and their insular select from the carpark mentality has meant that this situation has been perpetuated throughout the Pro era, just like the Financial institutions with AMP appointing a Former Commonwealth Bank CEO, that bastion of integrity the CBA, as the new Chairman to avoid a shareholder revolt. How is that anything but a continuation of the corrupt system to maintain the gravy train longer, the parallels are so close it is amazing.
 

half

Dick Tooth (41)
This is the thing Michael, people like me tried to temper your idealistic optimism and we were pointing out these facts to you. .

It can also spread rapidly.

Those who so held on to the view that its all OK, stop complaining IMO don't hhhmmmm will most don't have the resourcefulness [I think the right word], to be part of a process to bring about change.

Many still cling to the hope it will turn around. Or something will happen.

We need to change the conversation, we need to demand change, we need to kinda agree on what direction to take.

I fell off my chair when I read about the USA plans. FFS have you learned nothing.

We need an independent body, i.e independent from RA, to run a competition with independent teams. Neither the teams nor the body should be influenced in any way by RA.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
When I joined this forum, and up until this year, I was proudly one of the most optimistic posters going about.

This season, the Rebels loss tonight, and the fact that WSR appears to be potentially viable has absolutely convinced me that Super Rugby has nothing to offer Australia apart from the funds to prolong the inevitable.

Cutting another team wouldn't even help. Our best players simply aren't as good as New Zealand's squad fillers. People are overly idealistic - we can't return to the 90s. We're not good enough and the interest isn't there. Realism is needed here, and that involves taking several steps backwards to give the game a future in this country.

I'm currently living in Berlin and having recently moved here, I can't help but ask why the fuck I dedicated 2+ hours to watch a game of Super Rugby this morning, when I could be out exploring an exceptionally vibrant and interesting city.

To be honest, if I was still in Sydney, I'd probably be asking myself the same thing. I don't have the energy to watch my beloved Tahs get thumped by a shit Blues tomorrow and then sodomised by an incredible Crusaders next week.

I'm signing off from Super Rugby for the rest of the season. Burn it all down and start again. Bring on the NRC, 2019s WSR and whatever comes post 2020.
Great city. I checked when I was there: there’s a Berlin rugby club!
They’ve won more recently than the Tahs, I’ll bet...........and it’s summer
 

Forcefield

Ken Catchpole (46)
Personally I'd love the Kiwis to boot us out of super rugby. It would save RA from having to make a decision.

Tell whoever wrote that column: Bring. It. On.
I love it how, not content to be New Zealand's bitch on the field, we entertain the thought of being their bitch off it. If New Zealand is complaining about our teams (a) stop recruiting our players and (b) dilute your talent a bit. Add an extra team or two. Oh that doesn't suit you? How do you think we feel about shrinking to three teams?
 

Joe King

Dave Cowper (27)
Like beyond wow. From SMH.

Australian rugby is on the brink of “sinking without a trace” and New Zealand Rugby should seriously consider pushing for another reduction in teams across the ditch, or entertain the possibility of playing its own competition.

A blessing in disguise?
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Personally I'd love the Kiwis to boot us out of super rugby. It would save RA from having to make a decision.

Tell whoever wrote that column: Bring. It. On.

"The Kiwis" can't "kick you out" of Super Rugby (& even Gregor Paul isn't stupid enough to not know that) even if they wanted to (which they don't), it's just Gregor Paul trying to be more controversial than whichever hack wrote the last "analysis" of the state of rugby in Australia. Next week Chris Rattue will probably try to outdo Paul & you shouldn't take any notice of him, either.
 

dru

David Wilson (68)
"The Kiwis" can't "kick you out" of Super Rugby (& even Gregor Paul isn't stupid enough to not know that) even if they wanted to (which they don't), it's just Gregor Paul trying to be more controversial than whichever hack wrote the last "analysis" of the state of rugby in Australia. Next week Chris Rattue will probably try to outdo Paul & you shouldn't take any notice of him, either.

It’s not just these writers (who aparantly we should ignore) but plenty of Kiwi fans too. Clyne, in a presser more inept than his usual incompetant standard, showed the world that the Super prognosis was three Aus teams. Maximum. Ignored mostly here in Aus. Not missed in the land of the long white cloud.

Australian pro rugby can’t survive local market forces with three teams, in fact I doubt it can with four. There is no logical place for Australia in the future Super Rugby vision that is being displayed. I’d imagine that the NZRU are well ahead of RA in recognising this. The question is what they do with this in mind?

There are feedback mechanisms happening that all INCREASE the common sense behind Australia withdrawing (or being forced) from Super Rugby as our second tier.

Paul’s contribution is not friendly or helpful, but it’s not wrong either.
 

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
^^^^^^ Significant imo that Paul's story contains no quotes, not even of the "requested anonymity" kind, the reason being even he knows he can't ptetend that anyone of consequence in NZ rugby (let alone NZ Rugby) is thinking anything of the sort. I have some pretty decent behind the scenrs sources & trust me, no one wants Australian rugby to go under & not many want to see RA fold. As I've said many times before, I think you'd be pleasantly surprised at how much goodwill exists.
 
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