SteveWA
Charlie Fox (21)
You got me there, memory failed. 14 November 2010.
Where to for Super Rugby?
- Thread starter Quick Hands
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You got me there, memory failed. 14 November 2010.
And had 3 posts at the time of the warning. Two of which were playing the man and not the ball.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
This is what you get when you hide yourself on a US media company with no one having any real power to challenge the decision makers.
Its just gets worse each year.
Scroll down we are number number 18 on page five.
https://www.ausport.gov.au/__data/a...83/AusPlay_focus_Children_Participation_2.pdf
Its just gets worse each year.
Scroll down we are number number 18 on page five.
https://www.ausport.gov.au/__data/a...83/AusPlay_focus_Children_Participation_2.pdf
hoggy
Nev Cottrell (35)
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...in-secret-strategy-paper-20180502-p4zcx8.html
Well sadly the game really is fucked
Well sadly the game really is fucked
Rebelsfan
Billy Sheehan (19)
the last sentence sums that up:
"Rugby Australia have employed their own consultant to formulate an Australian strategy to take into discussions about the new broadcast deal.
not sure what Raelene does really if the consultants formulate the strategies
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Do you believe that a CEO should be an expert at everything?
I suppose I will be criticised for my "support" of Raelene, but in my humble experience, it is a wise person who understands the limits of his or her knowledge.
A well connected and cluey expert is worth far more than the money that it costs to employ them.
As for Hoggy's comment that the game is farked: maybe it is, who knows? But a "secret strategy" is not a policy, we have absolutely no idea where it will go, up, or down, or maybe.
Let us wait and see, and not start crying just yet.
I suppose I will be criticised for my "support" of Raelene, but in my humble experience, it is a wise person who understands the limits of his or her knowledge.
A well connected and cluey expert is worth far more than the money that it costs to employ them.
As for Hoggy's comment that the game is farked: maybe it is, who knows? But a "secret strategy" is not a policy, we have absolutely no idea where it will go, up, or down, or maybe.
Let us wait and see, and not start crying just yet.
sunnyboys
Bob Loudon (25)
yep Consultants arent always bad... the questions you give them to answer is always the most important thing.
RUPA's consultant predicted Super Rugby expansion would be a disaster so proved quite good.
You would think the most basic of market research would show that Super Rugby is a tarnished brand in Oz, with little cut through or support. As a brand i would say it is dead. as a competition concept, it remains to be seen which way they jump.
But its safe to say change is coming - SANZAAR appear to canvassing a lot of options! RA need to make sure they have listened to their fans lest they end up with none.
RUPA's consultant predicted Super Rugby expansion would be a disaster so proved quite good.
You would think the most basic of market research would show that Super Rugby is a tarnished brand in Oz, with little cut through or support. As a brand i would say it is dead. as a competition concept, it remains to be seen which way they jump.
But its safe to say change is coming - SANZAAR appear to canvassing a lot of options! RA need to make sure they have listened to their fans lest they end up with none.
Derpus
Nathan Sharpe (72)
Pretty sure most of Twiggy's revenue comes from government subsidies lol.
wamberal
Phil Kearns (64)
Just a word of caution. There are different areas where consultants work. Some are technically very proficient in a narrow area. For example, in the area of broadcasting rights. Others are more general in terms of the consulting they do.
A classical "management consultant", the McKinsey archetype, usually knows very early in the assignment what the big problem(s) is or are, and then has to work on building some sort of consensus within the organisation to accept the diagnosis and the cure.
In fact, sometimes the consultant knows before the assignment starts, just based on what he has been told by the client at the selection phase.
hoggy
Nev Cottrell (35)
You wonder exactly what those consultants have advised in the past to get us to where we are, or have they listened to there advise or what parameters are those new consultants working under. But if they still think another foreign market is going to somehow miraculously pay for our rugby, it shows me they have learnt nothing.
dru
David Wilson (68)
How many times, Wam? How many times do we need to wait and see - and experience the results? Before cyncism, nay disbelief sets in?
Consultants have given us each of the conference formats, given us expansion, given us contraction. Apparently we should not expect Raelene to provide leadership but to hand over to better. The consultants.
TBH this sort of plan is what will come from SANZAAR. It is compromised in the first instance through the requirements of each of the main players. Funding has to be sought and a wedge into US seems sensible. The problem starts with SANZAAR which is proving clumsy at best. What happens from here, is that the consultants correctly answer (if the answer is in deed correct) THE WRONG QUESTION.
We can expand on these, but looking to the Aus environment:
1. does the proposal increase funding - OK possible (not gauaranteed at this stage)
2. Does it give us a National footprint - NO, in fact options in clude further shrink to greatness
3. Does it give us a local game each Friday and Saturday (and preferably Sunday) - unknown, unlikely I suspect
4. Will it provide ANZAC games on ANZAC week? Unknown
5. Does it give a logical progression to Aus franchises to build home support during the season - ideally, but not necessarily - Home game every second week? Unlikely
6. Does it provide enough local games to satisfy the Aus punter? Unlikely
There are important follow on questions that no doubt the SANZAAR consultants have not been briefed on - relating to connection to State Premier Rugby and the grass roots.
From the outset, this appears to be relatively creative, which is good, to a SAANZAR competition. But a competition in which the Australia role is shrinking and not gelled into the national interests. It MAY prove successful for SANZAAR.
The hopeful item was admitting that alternatives including a Trans Tasman competition (and i would hope Aus withdrawal) could not be part of a SANZAAR strategy. With luck someone, if not Raelene some other smarter consultant, is working hard on that B plan.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
SANZAAR, well if ever a body believed its own BS then it is them.
Back page news in Sydney's Terrorgraph says SANZAAR, plan to expand the competition and want to create a team in the US.
For the love of the holy mother Mary, words fail me, at even thinking along these lines should sent you to the loony bin.
Back page news in Sydney's Terrorgraph says SANZAAR, plan to expand the competition and want to create a team in the US.
For the love of the holy mother Mary, words fail me, at even thinking along these lines should sent you to the loony bin.
half
Dick Tooth (41)
Another article on the same thing.
Super Rugby bombshell: SANZAAR has US in their sights with leaked document revealing inclusion of a new conference
SANZAAR are looking to boost the Super Rugby competition in the future by adding another conference of US teams.
Seta Tamanivalu had a superb assist for the Crusaders.
Source: Photosport
Fairfax is reporting, today, that they have obtained a strategy paper from SANZAAR, revealing Super Rugby expansion is still in the works, even after a detrimental two-year experiment of an 18-team format which was "confusing, lacked integrity and was ultimately not supported by fans, stakeholders and commercial partners".The strategy document showed that it will stick to a 15-team, three-conference competition until 2020 but that they have five options for the future, including contraction, retention and three different plans for expansion.
The concept for a potential 20-team, four conference system made up of "new teams or teams from an existing competition" will be an interesting prospect.
The document didn't go into details of regions and countries they are looking at but with World Rugby vice chairman Gus Pichot looking after the Rugby America's growth agenda and Major League Rugby kicking off in the US this year, it is likely North America is the target.
Super Rugby has wanted to get the US interested in the competition but the 18-team disaster put expansion talks on hold.
World Rugby has been trying hard to boost the participation and market share in North and South America and Pichot managed to get USA Rugby boss Dan Payne to join him at Rugby Americas.
Privately-funded MLR has linked up with major broadcast CBS as a partner and they hoping this competition can takes place.
Another expansion option includes keeping the three-conference system, but expands it by three teams at a time, or splitting into Atlantic and Pacific conferences.
The strategy document also has ideas of creating a 'Lions' southern hemisphere team and a fan-picked All Stars-style fixture to be played before the Super Rugby final.
The Lions idea isn't new but the blockbuster fixture will be nearly impossible to schedule.
The "fans' championship" concept would be made up of two teams chosen by fans from the best players and coaches that won't be playing in the final.
Killer
Cyril Towers (30)
RA has backed themselves into such a corner they have simply become a SANZAAR puppet, RA have no other option.
Edit: in the mean time WSR is being sponsored by Toyota
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Another article on the same thing.
Super Rugby bombshell: SANZAAR has US in their sights with leaked document revealing inclusion of a new conference
SANZAAR are looking to boost the Super Rugby competition in the future by adding another conference of US teams.
Seta Tamanivalu had a superb assist for the Crusaders.
Source: Photosport
Fairfax is reporting, today, that they have obtained a strategy paper from SANZAAR, revealing Super Rugby expansion is still in the works, even after a detrimental two-year experiment of an 18-team format which was "confusing, lacked integrity and was ultimately not supported by fans, stakeholders and commercial partners".
The strategy document showed that it will stick to a 15-team, three-conference competition until 2020 but that they have five options for the future, including contraction, retention and three different plans for expansion.
The concept for a potential 20-team, four conference system made up of "new teams or teams from an existing competition" will be an interesting prospect.
The document didn't go into details of regions and countries they are looking at but with World Rugby vice chairman Gus Pichot looking after the Rugby America's growth agenda and Major League Rugby kicking off in the US this year, it is likely North America is the target.
Super Rugby has wanted to get the US interested in the competition but the 18-team disaster put expansion talks on hold.
World Rugby has been trying hard to boost the participation and market share in North and South America and Pichot managed to get USA Rugby boss Dan Payne to join him at Rugby Americas.
Privately-funded MLR has linked up with major broadcast CBS as a partner and they hoping this competition can takes place.
Another expansion option includes keeping the three-conference system, but expands it by three teams at a time, or splitting into Atlantic and Pacific conferences.
The strategy document also has ideas of creating a 'Lions' southern hemisphere team and a fan-picked All Stars-style fixture to be played before the Super Rugby final.
The Lions idea isn't new but the blockbuster fixture will be nearly impossible to schedule.
The "fans' championship" concept would be made up of two teams chosen by fans from the best players and coaches that won't be playing in the final.
The "fans' Championship" is essentially the equivalent of the NFL's Pro weekend.
Honestly, the US isn't an option at present. Not with MLR up and running. Really cannot see it happening unless it's in some form of Champions League set up. Robinson is pretty entrenched with RA so we can all take what we will from her dismissal of Asia as an option regardless of the fact that it's the better option in my opinion.
The only thing I liked about it was the suggestion of the women's side of it growing.
Omar Comin'
Chilla Wilson (44)
If they hadn't stuffed up 18 teams so badly, and if the US and South America weren't already setting up their own leagues then maybe that idea (20 teams, 4 conferences - 1 in the Americas) could have worked. But as it stands it just seems ridiculous.
I think the best option now is to go to separate domestic (or same time zone) based leagues, with domestic finals. And then have some short global knockout cup on top of it featuring 16 teams.
Or maybe it would be better to do it like they do in Europe, where positions in the domestic leagues in one season qualifies you for the champions league type tournament in the next season, and the champions league is spaced out over special weekends throughout the season. That may be better given the distances involved. You could have situations where a team plays the round of 16 in Australia, quarters in South Africa, semis in the Americas and the final in New Zealand, and it wouldn't be ideal for them to be in consecutive weeks.
I think the best option now is to go to separate domestic (or same time zone) based leagues, with domestic finals. And then have some short global knockout cup on top of it featuring 16 teams.
Or maybe it would be better to do it like they do in Europe, where positions in the domestic leagues in one season qualifies you for the champions league type tournament in the next season, and the champions league is spaced out over special weekends throughout the season. That may be better given the distances involved. You could have situations where a team plays the round of 16 in Australia, quarters in South Africa, semis in the Americas and the final in New Zealand, and it wouldn't be ideal for them to be in consecutive weeks.
WorkingClassRugger
Michael Lynagh (62)
Domestic or timezone based followed by the 16 team knockout Champions League set up would do nicely in my opinion.
dru
David Wilson (68)
Yep.
1. We have a surprisingly cogent way forward from the Saffers. The back door to Europe now has a sign on the entry and neon lights at night time. But they stick, luke warm, with the Kiwis hoping something is pulled off. They want their piece of the motza should it come.
2. Kiwi management has a clear and cogent strategy for their 2nd tier rugby. They are at the roullette wheel with determination putting ALL of SANZAAR's resource onto Black 6. If it comes off it will be a motza! Questions as to whether it is a better strategy than Red 4 are left unanswered. <Bet against black? You'd have to be a lunatic!> And no-one, certainly not Australia can see past the roulette wheel to the real world waiting.
3. Aus the little boy pointing at his big brother called "Kiwi" and pipes up, "I'll have what he's having!" (Shush Bro, just a sip while no-one's looking.)
You couldn't make it up. Thank God for the Twig and Premier Rugby.
Brumby Runner
Jason Little (69)
A discrete domestic competition would require RA to withdraw entirely from SANZAR (A for Australia already omitted). Can't see that happening with the current RA Board and executive. If Super Rugby continues the downward slide over the last couple of years of the current agreement and RA sign on for more of the same, then I probably wouldn't mind so much if one or two of our franchises do move over to WRC.
Dan54
David Wilson (68)
I actually hope they are looking at USA, but I suspect you will find that is a plan for the future ie 10years or so, or should they not plan for future? If we don't show interest in American money and dollars sure as shit someone else will, and then everyone can say shit why didn't we get on that gravy train? I really can't even begin to see how some of you think, because most of the people who screamed at ARU for dropping the Force etc, said you can't get a sport better by shrinking seem to be saying they want a Aus only comp (um that is really shrinking), and don't think Sanzaar should be looking at expanding to USA eventually!
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