Where is the grunt?

[RugbyReg]

Ok, a common theme continues to flow. Our pack is not aggressive enough.

We miss the hard nosed types like Cockbain, Giffen, Kefu, Harry, Foley.

So what are our options at the moment? Who is out there and fit, and not part of that last 22, who could be contenders?

Phil Waugh would have to be a leading candidate?
Will Caldwell? I believe he's injured right?
Does Matt Dunning have 'it'? I'm not so sure. Perhaps more so than Al though?
Kepu? I think he's still a little flighty right? Too prone to wing play?
Adam Freier might have been handy, at least he's a tough little bugger who plays tight. But he's injured.

Is it worth considering Adam Byrnes? Sometimes those on the edge players can excel up at higher level. And he had some good games for the Reds.
Ben Daley. But we don't need another LHP.
Sean Hardman? May be an option to act as a wake up call to Moore or TPN.
Van Humphries I think is injured. But could have been a real option for a few tests.
Holmes isn't playing anywhere as far as I can tell.
Poutasi Luafutu at least is always at the ball, but so is Beau Robinson. Both bloody long shots.
Ezra Taylor's injured, isn't it. Might have been a roughie for the 8 spot.

Mark Chisolm almost a definite at this stage!
Chapman? Don't think he's fit is he? And I don't think he answers any questions.
Hand? More your old style lock. A solid option.
Kimlin gone for the season right?
Maafu? He's thuggish. Might be an option to get a bit of hardnosed in there, but the aint going to improve our presence at the ruck.
Shepherdson? Might be an option if Al continues his perceived slide. But where is he?

I don't think Pek Cowan would add anything would he?
Tim Fairbrother, on the other hand...

I got nothing.

Ideas?

 

[louie]

Waugh
Chisholm
Hand
Chapman
Holies
Shepherdson
Will Cladwell
Kepu

can all be bastards at times. i think there are plenty of options here.

 

[RugbyReg]

Holies

can all be bastards when at time. i think there are plenty of options here.

yeah???

 

[fatprop]

Holies

can all be bastards when at time. i think there are plenty of options here.

yeah???

Yeah, he stole a lolly off a little kid a Coogee once

 

[louie]

i've seen fire up and get in there. watch the NSW ACT game from this year.

 

[cheezel]

When deans said after the SA match that he'll drop repeat penalty offenders, all of the forwards became too shit scared to do anything. No current forward is that safe from being dropped (except maybe rocky, smith and robinson) and they all want to keep there spot.

Deans should be encouraging mongrel and backing his players instead of saying they'll be dropped unless they start to behave. As much as I think he's fairly ridiculous, I admired the way DeVilliers backed Botha even though he must have known that Botha was in the wrong.

 

[JJJ]

Good point, cheezel. It can't be too easy to encourage mongrel and discipline at the same time -- especially when you're trying to get players who don't seem to have any natural mongrel in them to play with mongrel. They don't seem to know where the line is of what they can and can't get away with like a natural mongrel would've figured out by now.

Plus the refs seem to have a perception that Aus is a bit of a dirty team lately (even by trinations standards). Maybe they think the only way we keep punching above our player-base weight is because we cheat. All the media stereotypes of Australia being a smart, wily team (translation: "We think you're crap but you still manage to be competitive somehow, must be a trick") feed into this. Maybe de Villiers and GH have made better use than Deans of the pre-match chat with the refs. Whatever the case we really need to keep our noses clean so the reputation doesn't stick because otherwise we'll get 50/50 decisions going against us and yellow cards where we might otherwise have gotten a warning.

 

[Scotty]

cheezel,

There is no doubt that we have lacked discipline, and there is also no doubt that it has contributed to at least two of our three losses. However discipline and mongrel do not have to be mutually exclusive and I doubt the Wallaby forwards had any worried thoughts in their heads about being dropped during that game (except maybe Brown when he was on the bench).

 

[spectator]

cheezel,

There is no doubt that we have lacked discipline, and there is also no doubt that it has contributed to at least two of our three losses. However discipline and mongrel do not have to be mutually exclusive and I doubt the Wallaby forwards had any worried thoughts in their heads about being dropped during that game (except maybe Brown when he was on the bench).

Agreed, in fact having mongrel probably means requiring more discipline.

 

[cheezel]

Fair call lads, but I can't help shake the feeling that the forwards aren't being encouraged enough to fire up and not take shit from anyone. If the kiwis are flopping over the ruck, clear them the fuck out instead of waiting for the ref to ping them or worse; have all of the players crying foul and pointing it out to the ref.

Back to Noddy's question, I think Chisolm would be a welcome addition to the forward pack. He would probably be the prime example of what Scotty and spectator are saying, disciplined mongrel.

 

[naza]

Back to Noddy's question, I think Chisolm would be a welcome addition to the forward pack. He would probably be the prime example of what Scotty and spectator are saying, disciplined mongrel.

Chisholm is a mongrel free underachiever who hasn't delivered despite umpteen chances. He's a pussycat. Body like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

 

[Scotty]

He was much improved on the EOYT last year. If he can bring that form he may have an impact.

 

[louie]

true scotty, wrong naza

 

[Spook]

Back to Noddy's question, I think Chisolm would be a welcome addition to the forward pack. He would probably be the prime example of what Scotty and spectator are saying, disciplined mongrel.

Chisholm is a mongrel free underachiever who hasn't delivered despite umpteen chances. He's a pussycat. Body like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

Agree with you but showed some steel at the end of last year. By the Baa Baa game he was smashing people like McCaw.

 

[fatprop]

But what is Grunt? Guys like Finnane would last a game before being banned.

We need mentally tough forwards who get up, hunt as a pack, hit the rucks together, move those rucks. win the ball and get up and do it again. And again and again until they are too tired to move.

Bob Dwyer on Ruggamatrix said it really well.

We are overplaying our attack, we are setting up our next attack continually before we have won the ball.

 

[RugbyReg]

Bob Dwyer on Ruggamatrix said it really well.

We are overplaying our attack, we are setting up our next attack continually before we have won the ball.

exactly.

But what is grunt? I just want us to show a bit aggression in tight. Controlled obviously. But an eagerness to hit the ruck/maul and keep involved. To actually try to clean out at the ruck. To counter ruck! To be prepared for contact. We're too loose.