What to do about the Argies?

[Tomikin]

It's kinda painful to see that the Argies have gone backwards since they joined super rugby as a international team, there bench isn't up too it mostly because they been on the bench all year at the Jaguars..

I seem to feel 1 team to pick the whole national squad is limiting there success and will do for the foreseeable future, till they get more teams in super rugby, or alternatively have a gitue law of some description.

Are there many Argies playing in Europe that would make them a better team ? or is it just a lack of players across the board that making them struggle.

I think they need to review there selection policies probably have a number of players that can be selected from outside Super Rugby so they can get there best team on the pitch.. Idea's ?

 

[Slim 293]

Are there many Argies playing in Europe that would make them a better team ? or is it just a lack of players across the board that making them struggle.

Yeah, there was actually an article recently outlining the number of quality players they have up north which would make a big difference to the team.

 

[Tomikin]

Yeah, there was actually an article recently outlining the number of quality players they have up north which would make a big difference to the team.

I'll go have a read thanks

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[Derpus]

If/when Soup collapses and a trans-tasman thing is borne they'll revert to type which will be great for the national team but leave any hopes of other local teams in the pits.

Even if Soup continues they may just loosen elligibility anyway, particularly before RWC19

Maybe, on a club level they join in with South Africa or something?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

If/when Soup collapses and a trans-tasman thing is borne they'll revert to type which will be great for the national team but leave any hopes of other local teams in the pits.

Even if Soup continues they may just loosen elligibility anyway, particularly before RWC19

Maybe, on a club level they join in with South Africa or something?

They've already stated that they'll look to select from outside of the current set up come RWC.

 

[TOCC]

Argentina had a once in a generation team in 2015, I think as a country they were going to go backwards regardless.. perhaps the RC and Super Rugby have lessened that fall by providing more competition for them




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[Braveheart81]

I think the point made in another thread that they now spend too long together each season seems reasonable.

Going from Super Rugby to test rugby with essentially the same group means things are a bit stale by the end of the season and it is harder to differentiate between the two and lift for test rugby.

 

[Brumby Runner]

How about putting the Argentina Super Rugby side in one conference and substantially reducing the amount of travel for them. Oh, hang on, that's what will happen next year. Part of their problem might already be solved.

 

[Rebels3]

"Are there many Argies playing in Europe that would make them a better team ? or is it just a lack of players across the board that making them struggle."
Definitely. Imhoff (Racing) if one of the worlds best wingers. Isa is a world class no8. Socino (Newcastle) would be their first choice 12. Fernandes (Clement) and Urdapilleta (Castre) are arguably better 10s than Sanchez. Definitely better than this older version of Hernandez. Figallo (Saracens), Herrera (Stade) even Bosch, Muller, etc would be good depth choices. I think it's something the other Rugby Championship countries should be demanding

 

[kiap]

They've already stated that they'll look to select from outside of the current set up come RWC.

They are also getting the Pampas back together again for the Saffa Vodocom Cup.

(Well, the Pampas are now "Argentina XV" and the Voda has been replaced by the "Rugby Challenge", or some such)

We probably stick with Los Pumas for TRC, but below that level I just think the Argies are a better fit with South Africa – or even in, say, Europe with the Pro14/ProN (see what I did there?).

I'm supportive of Argentine rugby but the distance is just insane for us (and them) to play regular season club/provincial teams there.

 

[Braveheart81]

How about putting the Argentina Super Rugby side in one conference and substantially reducing the amount of travel for them. Oh, hang on, that's what will happen next year. Part of their problem might already be solved.

I don't think their travel significantly reduces next year.

They go Arg - SA - Arg - Aus - NZ - Arg - SA - Arg.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

They are also getting the Pampas back together again for the Saffa Vodocom Cup.

(Well, the Pampas are now "Argentina XV" and the Voda has been replaced by the "Rugby Challenge", or some such)

We probably stick with Los Pumas for TRC, but below that level I just think the Argies are a better fit with South Africa – or even in, say, Europe with the Pro14/ProN (see what I did there?).

I'm supportive of Argentine rugby but the distance is just insane for us (and them) to play regular season club/provincial teams there.

I tend to agree regarding keeping them as part of the RC but that they may be better suited to playing in Europe. I find the re-emergence of the Pampas interesting. I actually believe they have enough talent to run two pro squads and if the money can be found they really should. I'd like to see them follow the Saffers north. Would work out best for everyone.

 

[kiap]

I tend to agree regarding keeping them as part of the RC but that they may be better suited to playing in Europe. I find the re-emergence of the Pampas interesting. I actually believe they have enough talent to run two pro squads and if the money can be found they really should. I'd like to see them follow the Saffers north. Would work out best for everyone.

Yeah, but don't give Europe the whole cake.

If it was a choice between Argentina going north or having two or several teams in a "South Atlantic" style supe comp with the Saffers, I reckon I'd choose the latter and suspect that's the way UAR might want to go too in the event of a further super restructure.

They need a strong domestic pro comp (or at least a regional one) as much as we do.

If that sort of local pro setup can get a reasonable length regular season in, then it's not so bad copping the extra distances for a short, sharp Champs comp if that gets added on. One or two of our teams might draw them now and again but that's better than a regular yearly grind.

 

[RoffsChoice]

A lot of their issues have come from basically converting the Pumas into the Jaguares with a different coaching structure. However, Scotland have put together a really successful team (equal 2nd in Six Nations, beating us in Australia, and a generally successful Autumn test season) with only two pro Scottish teams. And while it's easy to say that Scotland are still picking overseas players, more than 80% of their current squad play for Scottish clubs.

What Argentina has done is put themselves in a halfway house, trying to control club level development of their best players but instead reducing the talent pool available for their national side. They should either push for a second Super Rugby side (and, as an Australian, I'd tell them they're lucky we gave them one), or institute a Gatland's Law style selection process, where a limited number of overseas players are eligible if the Jaguares did not offer a "market value contract".

 

[Dismal Pillock]

wouldve been a quality pole in 1982

 

[Ruggo]

Super rugby is hindered behind the ideology of national patriotism rather than it being a competition of 15 provinces. For super rugby to work at it's full potential, the player pool needs to be opened up across national boundaries and qualifying for test selection open to players playing within the SANZAAR alliance. Argentina benefits from this. SA already loves rewarding players who leave SA with test selection Australia has the stupid Giteau Argies have not the scope to develop genuine national depth NZ quite rightly would oppose the above as their selection policy works well for them. They develop plenty of test quality talent and the carrot of the AB jersey is big enough to incentivize players to remain in NZ.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Super rugby is hindered behind the ideology of national patriotism rather than it being a competition of 15 provinces. For super rugby to work at it's full potential, the player pool needs to be opened up across national boundaries and qualifying for test selection open to players playing within the SANZAAR alliance. Argentina benefits from this. SA already loves rewarding players who leave SA with test selection Australia has the stupid Giteau Argies have not the scope to develop genuine national depth NZ quite rightly would oppose the above as their selection policy works well for them. They develop plenty of test quality talent and the carrot of the AB jersey is big enough to incentivize players to remain in NZ.

Yep. I actually think opening up the player market within the SANZAAR nations will actually make for a stronger competition all round. Let's be honest, the 'provinces' have long since transitioned from traditional representative squads to franchises anyway. Why not just embrace it. Just set a limit on the imports. Like 65% of your squad has to be eligible for national selection in the nation the franchise is based.

 

[kiap]

What Argentina has done is put themselves in a halfway house, trying to control club level development of their best players but instead reducing the talent pool available for their national side. They should either push for a second Super Rugby side (and, as an Australian, I'd tell them they're lucky we gave them one), or institute a Gatland's Law style selection process, where a limited number of overseas players are eligible if the Jaguares did not offer a "market value contract".

True, that.

Rumours (unsubstantiated for now) that Argentina will have all their offshore players available for the RWC in 2019.

Dunno if that's a Gatland/Giteau/Gateau thing but it's an about-face for UAR, if true. However their current test selection policy just ain't working for them.

It would also add weight to the view that Argentina's future at pro-club level will not likely remain with playing far-flung Australasian teams in SupeRugby in the long term.

Their Pesos will struggle even harder to retain the best players in Soup when Euros are on offer and the RWC carrot can be had playing in France.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Argies to allow euro players back into the test side

Good for the pumas. Maybe not great for the Jaguars

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/20...allow-european-based-players-back-into-pumas/

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