What is wrong with the Tahs

[Slim 293]

Only if the up talking doesn't start

Oh, there's going to be plenty of up talking, and I bet they're going to use Hooper to justify it...

 

[Braveheart81]

We've lost 7 games by 7 points or less.

Maybe there should be an assumption that if the players and the coaches work hard on fixing all the problems, we can be successful.

I don't buy into the argument that scapegoating a coach in his first year as a head coach in Super Rugby is the best way to fix our problems.

 

[jay-c]

i lost all confidence in foley the moment he put hangers at 10 and captain at the start of the year>
i think hes done a good job with the forwards but the backs have been as poor as i can remember.
with injuries the way they are its even possible we see foley and barnes as 10-12 for the wallabies... wouldnt foley look stupid then
i know hes got gaffney and bowen looking after the backs but hes head coach and if he allows the substandard performances to continue its on his head

 

[Bruce Ross]

I want to focus on the issue of physical conditioning, about which I tend to be somewhat obsessed, largely because almost nobody else acknowledges it as a crucial factor. Just last Saturday I was talking to a Waratahs coach of some decades back and he ridiculed my assertion that the Wallabies' nine straight losses to the All Blacks were in any way attributable to inappropriate physical conditioning. "He'd have known what to do," he said of the strength and conditioning coach concerned, "and anyway the Wallabies won the next two games." That is a reason why I try to avoid arguing with people; often the systems of logic we are using are mutually incomprehensible. And I have particular difficulty with the Argument from Authority - in this case because someone holds a particular position their expertise in that area should not be questioned.

This season the Waratahs have played 13 matches. They led at half time in 7 of them and were behind in 6. In just 2 matches did they win the second half, although they drew it on 3 occasions, and 8 times they lost it. As a result they are now just 4 wins from 13.

Last year, they led at half time in 6 matches, were equal in one, and behind in 7. But they won the second halves 9 to 5, and as a result won 8 out of 14 matches. Not outstanding but fairly reasonable. But this year, winning just 2 of 13 second halves suggests that their training methods and/or personnel need to be changed.

As far as I am aware the S & C coaches at the 'Tahs have been the same for both seasons, but I would hazard a guess that their training has been altered significantly this year with even less emphasis on lifting heavy weights.
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[jay-c]

isnt it noticable the difference in fitness between the tahs and the reds(more so last year) and the brumbies this year
id even suggest that if injuries are the teams excuse for 2 years in a row the fault then lies with the strength and conditioning coaches

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I want to focus on the issue of physical conditioning, about which I tend to be somewhat obsessed, largely because almost nobody else acknowledges it as a crucial factor. Just last Saturday I was talking to a Waratahs coach of some decades back and he ridiculed my assertion that the Wallabies' nine straight losses to the All Blacks were in any way attributable to inappropriate physical conditioning. "He'd have known what to do," he said of the strength and conditioning coach concerned, "and anyway the Wallabies won the next two games." That is a reason why I try to avoid arguing with people; often the systems of logic we are using are mutually incomprehensible. And I have particular difficulty with the Argument from Authority - in this case because someone holds a particular position their expertise in that area should not be questioned.

This season the Waratahs have played 13 matches. They led at half time in 7 of them and were behind in 6. In just 2 matches did they win the second half, although they drew it on 3 occasions, and 8 times they lost it. As a result they are now just 4 wins from 13.

Last year, they led at half time in 6 matches, were equal in one, and behind in 7. But they won the second halves 9 to 5, and as a result won 8 out of 14 matches. Not outstanding but fairly reasonable. But this year, winning just 2 of 13 second halves suggests that their training methods and/or personnel need to be changed.

As far as I am aware the S & C coaches at the 'Tahs have been the same for both seasons, but I would hazard a guess that their training has been altered significantly this year with even less emphasis on lifting heavy weights.
.

This rings true to me in the sense that until this season I always had a feeling that Tahs could do something in the 2nd half to win the game

 

[I like to watch]

We've lost 7 games by 7 points or less.

Maybe there should be an assumption that if the players and the coaches work hard on fixing all the problems, we can be successful.

I don't buy into the argument that scapegoating a coach in his first year as a head coach in Super Rugby is the best way to fix our problems.

In my next life I pray to land a high paying job reporting to you!
How he can be a scapegoat I have no idea, so no one is responsible?

 

[Lindommer]

I must say I agree with you, Bruce. The second half fadeouts this year are a telling tale of a lack of fitness, or strength, or both. Watching the Tahs often, as I'm want to do (unfortunately), the empty petrol tank at about the 65 minute mark has become painfully obvious. The sort of stats you've put up here should be well-known by the Tahs brains trust, and quickly rectified. Adding to this Foley seems to've caught Hickey's disease wherein replacing players is done by a pre-determined match schedule with the aid of a clock, rather than observing the contribution of players by careful observation. Palu jogging off at the 60 minute mark, not earlier or later, in the first tranche of games comes to mind.

 

[Braveheart81]

In my next life I pray to land a high paying job reporting to you!
How he can be a scapegoat I have no idea, so no one is responsible?

Do you expect someone coming to a job with no experience in the job you are employing for to not have more of a learning curve than someone who has done that job before?

 

[I like to watch]

Do you expect someone coming to a job with no experience in the job you are employing for to not have more of a learning curve than someone who has done that job before?

In business, I have never seen an executive promoted or recruited into a role, who perform this poorly in their 1st year and manage to keep their job,ever improve to a level above the minimum.
They are never over achievers, they are never the keepers, they normally have the sense to find a new home and start there with a blank sheet.
The guys who start out with a poor quarter who then change what or how they do things and make budget over the year are the ones who succeed.
This is a phenomenon experienced by many of my mates in a variety of industries.
The good operators learn and adapt on their feet, the ordinary performers either wither on the vine or are smart enough to job hop every 18 months to keep the illusion alive. Listen to what he says after each game, either he is bullshitting us or he has learnt nothing, or both.

 

[I like to watch]

Do you expect someone coming to a job with no experience in the job you are employing for to not have more of a learning curve than someone who has done that job before?

And he put his hand up for the pay to match his better title, whenever you go for a new job you always take on performance risk. In the real world anyway

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Do you expect someone coming to a job with no experience in the job you are employing for to not have more of a learning curve than someone who has done that job before?

Much as I hate to resort to mungoes: I recall Warren Ryan recounting that he had spoken to Nathan Brown when he was St George 1st grade coach and was going through a bad patch - Brown had said he "was learning a lot as 1st grade coach". Ryan said "1st grade coach is no place to be learning".
i think the same may be true of s. 15 but thats just an opinion.

 

[I like to watch]

And I have particular difficulty with the Argument from Authority - in this case because someone holds a particular position their expertise in that area should not be questioned.

This season the Waratahs have played 13 matches. They led at half time in 7 of them and were behind in 6. In just 2 matches did they win the second half, although they drew it on 3 occasions, and 8 times they lost it. As a result they are now just 4 wins from 13.

Last year, they led at half time in 6 matches, were equal in one, and behind in 7. But they won the second halves 9 to 5, and as a result won 8 out of 14 matches. Not outstanding but fairly reasonable. But this year, winning just 2 of 13 second halves suggests that their training methods and/or personnel need to be changed.

Amazing logic isn't it, they automatically attain expertise with the printing of a business card!

Those stats are telling Bruce, as you say the 2nd half is the money half.
I assume the Rebels are believers in your/Uni program of heavy lifting mid season?
I would be interested to see how their stats in this area pan out if that was the case.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I believe we need a coach that can play a similar role to what Link does at the reds and White does at the brumbies i.e. has TOTAL control over everything that relates to the team - playing list, training schedules, discipline, game theory, etc. Not someone that will allow other non-coaching big heads to have their say in what happens at the waratahs. Let management manage the business but allow the coach to run the team. Unfortuneately I don't believe any of the coaches we have now or in recent years are the types of personaliites to insist on this and stand up for the good of the organisation and the fans that support it.

The Tahs are shambles and too much management theology and factums are expoused for the results they get. A total overhaul of the place and playing roster, starting with a strong despotic coch is required

 

[Braveheart81]

I'm still confused by comments saying we should overhaul the playing roster.

Mumm, Halangahu, BKH, Elsom and Vickerman are either gone or highly unlikely to be there next season.

Besides those players who almost every person on the forum agrees need to move on, what else would people change about the Tahs playing roster?

 

[I like to watch]

Josh Manna Rea born 1981
richard Stanford born 1986
jeremy Tilse born 1986
John Uligia born 1986 promoted from EPS to cover injury and they gave him a 2 year contract, why?
These guys in addition to those quoted above is just about 30% of the roster.

 

[Richo]

Uligia has been good this year. The bigger question mark is over Fitzpatrick, IMO, given his run with injuries.

 

[Dave Beat]

C Neville still has room to improve, but at 23 the waratah's opted for veterans in Vickerman, and Mumm. A perfect example of their requitment targets.

 

[Braveheart81]

Neither Josh Mann-Rea and Richard Stanford are contracted players. Both are outside both the 30 man squad and 5 man EPS and are just there to cover injuries.

John Ulugia is the third choice hooker and can also play prop. In my mind that's not a bad guy to have contracted.

Jeremy Tilse is the fourth choice prop. I think most people are of the opinion that his scrummaging hasn't developed enough and that is probably a fair call. If we can find a talented young prop then it might be worth bringing them in to replace him.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

. Not someone that will allow other non-coaching big heads to have their say in what happens at the waratahs. is required

is there evidence to support the proposition that the current regime has permitted outsider to set the team agenda?
I hadn't heard that allegation and I think just about every other claim has been made but I don't recall that one this season. Could be wrong, of course.


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