What is wrong with the Tahs

[I like to watch]

C Neville still has room to improve, but at 23 the waratah's opted for veterans in Vickerman, and Mumm. A perfect example of their requitment targets.

He fielded interest from the Force as well, not sure if the Brumbies were ever in contact. The Tahs wouldn't know him from a packet of jatz

 

[I like to watch]

Neither Josh Mann-Rea and Richard Stanford are contracted players. Both are outside both the 30 man squad and 5 man EPS and are just there to cover injuries.

John Ulugia is the third choice hooker and can also play prop. In my mind that's not a bad guy to have contracted.

Huh I just went off the player list on the Tah website, didn't do the head count so my bad.
I was questioning why they gave Ulugia a 2 year contract, he was not in a position if strength when he signed up.

 

[Gnostic]

I want to focus on the issue of physical conditioning, about which I tend to be somewhat obsessed, largely because almost nobody else acknowledges it as a crucial factor. Just last Saturday I was talking to a Waratahs coach of some decades back and he ridiculed my assertion that the Wallabies' nine straight losses to the All Blacks were in any way attributable to inappropriate physical conditioning. "He'd have known what to do," he said of the strength and conditioning coach concerned, "and anyway the Wallabies won the next two games." That is a reason why I try to avoid arguing with people; often the systems of logic we are using are mutually incomprehensible. And I have particular difficulty with the Argument from Authority - in this case because someone holds a particular position their expertise in that area should not be questioned.

This season the Waratahs have played 13 matches. They led at half time in 7 of them and were behind in 6. In just 2 matches did they win the second half, although they drew it on 3 occasions, and 8 times they lost it. As a result they are now just 4 wins from 13.

Last year, they led at half time in 6 matches, were equal in one, and behind in 7. But they won the second halves 9 to 5, and as a result won 8 out of 14 matches. Not outstanding but fairly reasonable. But this year, winning just 2 of 13 second halves suggests that their training methods and/or personnel need to be changed.

As far as I am aware the S & C coaches at the 'Tahs have been the same for both seasons, but I would hazard a guess that their training has been altered significantly this year with even less emphasis on lifting heavy weights.
.

In my post after the Cheetahs game (game thread) I commented on what i perceived as the Tahs lacking fitness. I postulated that perhaps so many of their issues can come back to lack of fitness as their concentration and application fades once the fatigue sets in. I still think that there is a massive attitude issue also as so many seem to cruize through at key times.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

In the waratahs gym last year was a large sign that read "every little bit matters". I'm not sure if it is still there, but if it is I suggest the players start paying attention to it. To my eye it is the 1% that needs I proving. the little extra bits of fitness, the little extra handling skills, the on field communication, if these aspects are marginally improved I think it would lead to big improvements.

None of us has an inside view of how the team is training, but my suggestion would be that this is where the tahs should start building for next season, and they should do it now. Extra fitness, extra catch and pass, extra strength.

 

[rugbysmartarse]

In my post after the Cheetahs game (game thread) I commented on what i perceived as the Tahs lacking fitness. I postulated that perhaps so many of their issues can come back to lack of fitness as their concentration and application fades once the fatigue sets in. I still think that there is a massive attitude issue also as so many seem to cruize through at key times.

Agree with this, so many penalties at the ruck have a root in fatigue and consequent poor execution. The worst offender is Robinson. He looks to be carrying about 10 extra kilos, which is good for his scrummaging, but not good when it costs us 9 points a game

 

[hannibal]

Just saw this thread. Had posted these in Waratahs 2012 but more useful here. Poeple here might find these stats interesting on the trends in key metrics for the Tahs 2010-2012 seasons as they shed some objective light on whats going wrong. Took a while to pull together!

Anyway should be good for discussion - about 19 charts in total. Apologies as I had to put them in pictures that I have shoved on flikr (cant seem to link them directly here but thats probably me and my awful computer skills).

Summary trends in attack and defence 2010-2012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7299844744/

Skills and tactics trends 2011-2012
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7299818548/

1st half and 2nd half trends: 2012 only.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/79608322@N05/7299845084/

Enjoy.

 

[Gnostic]

From the SMH

Sack Michael Foley at your peril. That's the message from the Waratahs playing group, with some of Australian rugby's biggest drawcards believed to be prepared to walk if the popular coach is shown the door.
As speculation mounts that Foley will be moved aside to make way for Michael Cheika after the Waratahs slumped out of finals contention last month, the NSW administration is on course for an ugly showdown with its players - some of whom are devising a plan B for 2013. The Herald understands several player managers are putting out feelers to Japan and France in case of such an event.
Just two months ago, Foley was approached by Wallabies coach Robbie Deans to return to the national fold in an assistant's capacity and now he's facing the prospect of being sacked or demoted in the first year of a three-year contract. What has been overlooked is that Foley was a big part of the Waratahs' success under former coach Chris Hickey. Hickey played more of the man-management role, while Foley was largely responsible for strategy. If he goes, the knock-on effects could be dire.
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''These players are very close to Foley and believe he is the way forward,'' a leading player agent said. ''Sure, there are probably some personnel changes that need to be made to the squad, some new blood, but there's been issues between the board and the football side of things for years … No one sees Foley as the problem.''
And while the spotlight has been firmly on the Waratahs' on-field results, officials in and beyond the franchise believe it's time the Waratahs board became accountable for the state of NSW Rugby.
The majority of the board has overseen plenty of questionable moves over the past four seasons, including the sacking of coach Ewen McKenzie, the departure of Kurtley Beale and the splitting of the NSW Rugby Union board to create two separate administrations.
Meanwhile, it is said Alan Gaffney is shaping up as the scapegoat at Waratahs headquarters. Several players can count themselves victims, with outside-centre Tom Carter offered a severely diminished contract to continue his career at the club next season.

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/showdown-looms-as-foleys-loyal-troops-threaten-to-walk-if-besieged-coach-axed-20120601-1zn3u.html#ixzz1wb8ejwc4

Who are these drawcards Rakic speaks of. Mitchell who has played a game? TPN who spend more time unconcscious or dazed than playing? Robinson? Surely not Barnes? I would hazard the reference is to Elsom. Goodbye Rocky, the sooner the better, it isn't a coincidence IMO that since Elsom's return from Ireland any team he is involved with under performs and has internal issues.

If the players do walk away from their Waratah contracts they will also be walking away from their Wallabies contracts as no other province will be able to sign them. Does anybody really think it will happen?

I do feel sorry for those who will be used a scape goats by Foley and the board to preserve their positions. People like Gaffney and Tom Carter.

Last year I suggested that the board needed a masive shake up. Seems the tide is turning on that reagrd. What this article plainly says is another point that so many of us tried to make, Foley has been the coach in actuality for a few years now.

Wipe the slate clean from the board down and have all reapply for their positions. If Foley is the best available he will win his position back and be on a much firmer footing with a decent board. I think however Foley would find the competition very stiff if he faced a truely open process given his performance over the last few years.

One last point, I think all the references to Chieka are a smoke screen and a distraction. Chieka has a less than harmonious relationship with the NSWRU and the Tahs. I just cannot see him returning from dealing with a megalomanic at Stade to dealing with a bunch of self serving, back stabbing politicians at the NSWRU/Tahs.

 

[Badger]

Yeah Gnostic, can’t really say that the Tahs have many drawcard players as alluded to in the article. They let arguably their biggest drawcard in Beale slip through their hands last year. A cleanout maybe what the Tahs need anyway.

It’s a bit rich to have Gaffney and Carter be the scapegoats for what’s happened this season. Gaffney has only been here a year and how does Carter become hero to zero within a year after winning the Waratah Medal for excellence both on and off the field in 2011? What about those that are responsible for defence and the backs? They should be the ones in the hot seat.

I don’t think the board will fall on its sword. It would probably need NSWRU, its shareholder, to give it a nudge. From what I have gleaned on other threads, some of the board members have been on the Waratahs Rugby and NSWRU board before that for a long time. In the spirit of good governance, board renewal should be undertaken or perhaps term limits should be introduced as there would be only so much you can contribute in the same role for an extended period of time.

 

[I like to watch]

Any player that thinks he is in a position to dictate who may or may not coach him, when the win/loss is less than 1/3 can fuck off for a start.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Any player that thinks he is in a position to dictate who may or may not coach him, when the win/loss is less than 1/3 can fuck off for a start.

Reminds me of Tim Nielson as coach of the Australian cricket team. Any coach who is popular with the players, probably isn't pushing them hard enough.

 

[kiap]

Geez the Tahs are shit tonight.

 

[Tordah]

open up a thread "what is not wrong with the Tahs" so you don't have to read through 20 pages. It's bit similar to the Blues, a team that should do a lot better, as they have a good team on paper.

 

[TOCC]

I think the Hurricanes are a perfect example..

Everyone though they were crazy by releasing Weepu, Nonu and co at the end of last season... But it seems to have pay off dividends for them, maybe the Tahs should consider this sort of option

 

[liquor box]

I believe we need a coach that can play a similar role to what Link does at the reds and White does at the brumbies i.e. has TOTAL control over everything that relates to the team - playing list, training schedules, discipline, game theory, etc. Not someone that will allow other non-coaching big heads to have their say in what happens at the waratahs. Let management manage the business but allow the coach to run the team. Unfortuneately I don't believe any of the coaches we have now or in recent years are the types of personaliites to insist on this and stand up for the good of the organisation and the fans that support it.

The Tahs are shambles and too much management theology and factums are expoused for the results they get. A total overhaul of the place and playing roster, starting with a strong despotic coch is required

I dont know if there are enough people with Links or Whites experience that could demand to be in charge of everything. I doubt Foley would have been able to demand anything much other than a job for his first role.

In the second half tonight I was wondering what the Tahs would be willing to pay for Link to leave his director of coaching next year and go to the Tahs for a season or two until Deans has to get a new contract.

 

[Reddy!]

All I can say is, the Tahs have made it a lot harder for the Reds to get through with the Hurricanes notching another win!

 

[liquor box]

To my eye it is the 1% that needs I proving. the little extra bits of fitness, the little extra handling skills, the on field communication, if these aspects are marginally improved I think it would lead to big improvements.
quote]Why do they insist of throwing spiral passes in wet conditions? It looks nice to the eye, but they are harder to catch. I have never understood the fascination with a spiral pass from 1m away.

 

[grievous]

L

From the SMH




http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/showdown-looms-as-foleys-loyal-troops-threaten-to-walk-if-besieged-coach-axed-20120601-1zn3u.html#ixzz1wb8ejwc4

Who are these drawcards Rakic speaks of. Mitchell who has played a game? TPN who spend more time unconcscious or dazed than playing? Robinson? Surely not Barnes? I would hazard the reference is to Elsom. Goodbye Rocky, the sooner the better, it isn't a coincidence IMO that since Elsom's return from Ireland any team he is involved with under performs and has internal issues.

If the players do walk away from their Waratah contracts they will also be walking away from their Wallabies contracts as no other province will be able to sign them. Does anybody really think it will happen?

I do feel sorry for those who will be used a scape goats by Foley and the board to preserve their positions. People like Gaffney and Tom Carter.

Last year I suggested that the board needed a masive shake up. Seems the tide is turning on that reagrd. What this article plainly says is another point that so many of us tried to make, Foley has been the coach in actuality for a few years now.

Wipe the slate clean from the board down and have all reapply for their positions. If Foley is the best available he will win his position back and be on a much firmer footing with a decent board. I think however Foley would find the competition very stiff if he faced a truely open process given his performance over the last few years.

One last point, I think all the references to Chieka are a smoke screen and a distraction. Chieka has a less than harmonious relationship with the NSWRU and the Tahs. I just cannot see him returning from dealing with a megalomanic at Stade to dealing with a bunch of self serving, back stabbing politicians at the NSWRU/Tahs.

Let them walk

 

[kiap]

I think the Hurricanes are a perfect example..

Everyone though they were crazy by releasing Weepu, Nonu and co at the end of last season... But it seems to have pay off dividends for them, maybe the Tahs should consider this sort of option

The Tahs players who don't want Foley sacked. Let them go.

 

[Gnostic]

I will post some stats in the game thread but a few weeks ago I sat through the game twice and analysed their kicking and play and came up with at best 13% of their kicks were well executed. Tonight we had a grand total of 12 kicks from the Tahs. Just amazing on a night where the track was so wet. I should rejoice that they improved their percentage of well executed kicks to 25%.

The passess go to stationary players who take two steps before getting hit by a defender.

Palu will get huge wraps for making lot of metres when on every occassion he made significant inroads he did so by picking the ball up from an offisde position as a pillar at the ruck. A decent ref (and Bryce Lawrence is not though he had an OK night) would have penalised him.

Looking at the stadium tonight there were more Hurricanes supporters at the venue than Tahs. I am sure that the Tahs have sold more membership than showed up tonight so it seems to me that the support base has collapsed. All that is left now are the patriots who will not waver in their support in their childlike blindness. Financially this is a disaster for the Tahs and the longer it takes to fix the issues the lower this base will get.

I seriously suggest that the board and the coaching staff should resign. Their position in untenable.

 

[ChargerWA]

I think the Hurricanes are a perfect example..

Everyone though they were crazy by releasing Weepu, Nonu and co at the end of last season... But it seems to have pay off dividends for them, maybe the Tahs should consider this sort of option

But do NSW have a Perenara, Barrett, Savea and Taylor waiting in the wings? The depth in NZ rugby is phenomenal.