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What does everybody think about the law crackdown?

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Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
What does everybody think about the law crackdown?

Most of us were hoping that the advertised crackdown on infringements and forcing the players to keep to the laws as written would lessen the number of times the ball was killed or slowed down.

To me it worked brilliantly. Dickinson is not my favourite referee but he is pretty fearless. He set the bar on the crackdown on infringements in the opening game and right from the kick-off – releasing the tackled player, the tackler getting to feet before he did anything etc, Dickinson even got the offside pillars to retreat behind last feet a few times.

There were a few frowns from the players, as if to say: “The coach warned us the ref would be stricter, but having to keep to every tackle/ruck law is ridiculous,” but the Canes players reacted better and won the game, It was a pity that the Blues guys kept being boneheads and giving up penalties as they had the backs to take advantage of the better ball quality.

I expect that most of the 7 referees made players conform better to the laws than they ever had before but some gave too much benefit to attackers by letting them go off feet too much and too often. But the sky didn't fall and after the game most players who commented enjoyed it. The best praise of the crackdown came from Victor Matfield.

I thought the worst referee on the crackdown was the new Kiwi ref who had the Sharks v Chiefs game. He was very inconsistent IMO. I always go for the Chiefs except when they play an Oz team and I'm glad they won, but in that last ruck Messam had his hand on the ball right in front of the camera and the ref. But I realise that any ref can miss one thing; so it was the confused message he was sending to the players in the crackdown during the game that was the worst thing in my eyes.

The Bulls, surprsingly, seemed the best to take avantage of better ball on the weekend and eventually, the Crusaders. The Reds were the best of the Oz teams and the Tahs, the worst.

As Chief indicated in another thread: there were a lot of PKs and FKs, but not enough yellow cards. There should be some rough proportion between the number of frequent infringements and the number of cards issued, at least over 7 games. Let's hope that Bray gives the refs a rocket for it.

Let's hope also that the refs don't wimp out after a week or two and go back to their old ways. They've done it before with crackdowns.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Mixed, Lee.
Dickinson had the better of it I thought as well. The Kiwi guy in the last game was all at sea. Joubert was a bit inconsistent. There was a fair bit of other rubbish creeping in at the breakdowns, while he pounced on tacklers not releasing (mostly). There were a few times where a player went to ground with ball, had little or no support but lay there holding the ball tight, and a defending player got pinged because they had failed to release a fairly meaningless hold on his boot - I'm not sure that is a big improvement if it allows attacking teams to be lax with support play knowing the guy on the ground can hold on for dear life and not get done for not releasing the ball. As far as I am aware, that is still a rule.
Well all have a better idea after a few weeks. I like the principle.
 
R

rugbywhisperer

Guest
Personally I was delighted.
The incidence of secondary infringements at the breakdown disappeared as the refs penalised the first infringement - as it should be.
To me, the speed of the T/R/M ball delivery was very good.
Another high point was the lack of scrum resets. I am still coming to grips with how this happened however the attention given to the engagement seems to have done the trick.
It was also very pleasing to see a crackdown on the non feeding scrummie climbing all over and harassing the attacking scrummie . This has been a beef of mine for a while and this crackdown made for some good scrum delivery.
 
C

chief

Guest
Dickinson had a great game, and it's good to see that he has improved. However the penalty count at 25 penalties should have resulted in at least a few more cards dished out. Joubert penalised far too inconsistently, numerous occasions it seemed it was out of his refereeing style to penalise for not releasing the tackled player. But I'm all for a game that is free flowing but still strict on the application (like Dickinson, and Joubert)

Kaplan too had a good game, although I only saw half of it, like most of his performances, he was strict come ruck time. The other game I saw was the Chiefs one, where he was plainly inconsistent.

Hopefully we will see in games to come, a more 'pocket' approach to the refereeing.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
We saw (generally) an end to kicking duels. People took the ball into contact as a priority. Good enough for me.

The only picky point I've got is that while cracking down on the breakdown the refs appear to be too mentally exhausted to keep up with the other laws, but this is not their fault. There are more rucks than anything in the game and if that gets priority then it can only be a good thing.
 

naza

Alan Cameron (40)
I think it is way too early to for backslaps. Let's see what happens 5-6 games down the line when the players & coaches adjust and learn how to work the system.
 

louie

Desmond Connor (43)
I'm excited by it Lee,
Gave the game more excited and a bit more fluid play. It felt more attacking and the tempo i was right.
It felt as if the brain was being used again by most teams.
Overever it neeeds to be consistent, which will come with time. I wasn't happy with much of the froce v brumbies game. The laws just seemed to fall away after ten minutes.
 
C

chief

Guest
louie said:
I'm excited by it Lee,
Gave the game more excited and a bit more fluid play. It felt more attacking and the tempo i was right.
It felt as if the brain was being used again by most teams.
Overever it neeeds to be consistent, which will come with time. I wasn't happy with much of the froce v brumbies game. The laws just seemed to fall away after ten minutes.

Not to mention Walsh's reluctance to put his hand in his pocket. Really should have taken action.

I was initially worried by it all, as I have said in previous threads, but it did turn out to be a positive during week one, when enforced though. Definitely interested in the coming weeks, and seeing if it still does achieve attractive rugby. But very much correct, the law is written in black and white, and as Lee pointed out it is not an interpretation, it is written in one clear way and has been for a long time. It's about time, they paid attention to it, despite what I said in previous threads about the compilation of both the attacking team effectively being able to be 'blind eyed' for their offenses, and it being mixed with the actual law. Slightly worrying for me initially. But let's wait and see.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Yeah louie - like everything regarding referees consistency is the key and that means consistency from game to game and week to week and ref to ref.

I forgot to mention what NTA said. There was less aerial ping pong and the reason for that was that players weren't so shit scared to take the ball into contact. It's got to be a good thing so long as refs don't let attacking players dive in to protect the ball when a player is isolated.

I wonder what SANZAR ref boss Bray will say about the crackdown in Rd.1 and what directives he will issue to the S14 ref squad after analysing everything. I wonder if everything goes well for a while what the NH people will say about it.

But naza is right: we shouldn't go backslapping - we know how referees are like junkies and go back to their bad habits.

Let's hope they stay clean.
 
C

chief

Guest
Look no further, this is what he had to say or touch on.

from nzherald
The June test window is expected to provide definitive proof the Northern Hemisphere will have to accept tougher rulings at the tackled ball and scrums.

The Sanzar nations have bought into the new law interpretations and are committed to making them work in Super 14 while the Six Nations have declined to trial them in their current championship as they have played five months of their season under a different emphasis.

There had been concerns that, come the June tests, the IRB would back down and not enforce the new interpretations to give the Northern Hemisphere nations more time to decide whether they would accept them.

But New Zealand Rugby Union referee manager Lyndon Bray, who is also doubling as the Sanzar co-ordinator during the Super 14 to ensure there is consistency of application, says he's confident the interpretations will be globally implemented before too long.

"The June window will be a challenge but we can't afford to go backwards on this," said Bray.

"What we are hearing from England is that they want to see the same things over there.
"The game needs to change and it needs to change in a hurry."

A mix of Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere referees will be appointed to officiate the June tests when the All Blacks play Ireland and Wales twice.

The All Black coaches have expressed their desire to see tough rulings as they believe it will speed up the game, turn the scrum into a true contest and encourage teams to attack more.

Bray says the IRB are also sold on the idea and are particularly keen to see the scrum cleaned up as the spectre of around 20 collapsed set-pieces per test is killing the sport as a spectacle.

The Europeans have united under Irishman Donal Courtney, which is a positive sign the desire is there to have all referees working to the same script.

"In November, all the tier one countries met," says Bray, "and we essentially agreed we needed to change. The desire is there to make our decisions unified, global and simplified."
 

JJJ

Vay Wilson (31)
I hope these new interpretations don't lead to the kind of rugby played by Munster in the 2008 HC final, which by all accounts was ugly ugly rugby. I haven't seen the match myself, but apparently they got themselves a lead and then wore the clock down with endless pick-and-gos by large pods of forwards, going to ground almost immediately to set up secure, time-wasting "rucks" without even waiting to be tackled.

I could see the Bulls doing something like that.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Now why in this world would the Bulls do this and the Waratahs not?

I am actually worried about the impact of this on SH rugby. Once we play against the NH we may come short competing at the rucks and breakdowns for pill specially when we have a NH ref.

Tell you what, keep this qoutes the yes sayers and wait till after this weekend and you'll see the complains about the referee in the Stormers vs Tahs match. Make a big circle specially WJ.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
JJJ said:
I hope these new interpretations don't lead to the kind of rugby played by Munster in the 2008 HC final, which by all accounts was ugly ugly rugby. I haven't seen the match myself, but apparently they got themselves a lead and then wore the clock down with endless pick-and-gos by large pods of forwards, going to ground almost immediately to set up secure, time-wasting "rucks" without even waiting to be tackled.

I could see the Bulls doing something like that.

They are not interpretations of the law. Interpretations of the law are the things that have corrupted our game to a ball slowing down or killing contest. What they are are applications of the laws as they are written. The rationale to go back to law basics is to get rid of the interpretations which have clogged the arteries of our game.

They work directly against the things that went on in that HC final after which Donncha O'Callaghan said something like: "Who cares if we were boring - I've got a winner's medal in my arse pocket."

You can't blame the Munster guys playing like that because that was the kind of game that the referees had allowed them to play for decades, but especially since pro rugby started. Being a Munster fan I am glad they had a victory, but it was a little death for rugby - as was the last RWC final.


Did you see the Bulls game v the Cheetahs? They put on over 50 points and were the best team of the weekend at using the better quality ball. Skipper Matfield gave it a big thumbs up after the game.

Let's hope that the referees keep their nerve.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
He'd been stupid not to give it atumbs up. If you dominate the lineouts , you just play phase after phase and hold the pill. Same thing the Stormers did against the Lions. Both team hold on till they get either a try or penalty. Less worries about Bussouw poaching turn over ball for the Tin Ears or Baywatch doing the same thing for the Lions. With this new rules line outs become all important. If you dominate there, you dominate possesion.
 

Pfitzy

Nathan Sharpe (72)
JJJ said:
apparently they got themselves a lead and then wore the clock down with endless pick-and-gos by large pods of forwards, going to ground almost immediately to set up secure, time-wasting "rucks" without even waiting to be tackled.

That is a valid tactic under any set of law interpretations you'd care to point out. If your forwards didn't go too far last year you could hang onto the ball for ages. Its when your forwards aren't the first men there that you have a problem.

And I have no problem with this tactic - if the opposition are any good they'll blow back over the ball on their feet and stop you in your tracks.
 

Langthorne

Phil Hardcastle (33)
I like the theory.
I hope it is implemented consistently - like in the Crusaders-Highlanders and Bulls-Cheetahs games.
In the former there were a couple of scrum penalties early and then few problems from then on.
In the Reds-Tahs match the scrum was much messier, probably because decisive action wasn't taken early.
I will be very happy to see clean scrums and less aerial ping pong.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Some interesting stats from round 1
Superrugby
Instruction to be 'stricter' brings changes

The instruction to referees to “be stricter” has had a major impact in the first round of Super 14 action with 153 points scored from penalties.

It’s an increase of 240% on the 45 points that were scored via penalties in the opening round of last year’s competition.

The number of penalties (51) is virtually 3.5 times (340%) more than the 15 of last year.

The number of tries has also decreased, with 30 tries scored in last weekend’s seven Super 14 games against last year’s 44 in the first round.

The instruction to “be stricter” is aimed at making the game a better spectacle, but it has had the opposite effect in the opening round, with points mostly scored from kicks.

South African Rugby Union (Saru) referees manager André Watson said that referees would not change their approach. Rather, it is the teams that will have to adapt.

Referees that are blowing in the international competition were schooled on a number of aspects in the pre-season.

The application of the so-called daylight law at the breakdowns, better management of the scrums and observing of off-side at tactical kicks were all implemented to promote the quality of the rugby.

“The players will have to adapt to the laws because the referees will certainly not ease up in their application,” said Watson.

“We had a tele-conference with New Zealand and Australia on Tuesday morning and all of us were generally pleased with the referees’ performances. We even got good feedback from the public.”

Timing at the scrums and the chasing of tactical kicks are being policed, but it’s the breakdown law that is especially being strictly applied.

In the past the tackler could play the ball immediately, provided that he was on his feet.

Now he has to give the attacking team a fair chance of placing the ball before competing. There has to be daylight between his hands and the ball.

“It stops unlawful contesting of the ball. Many players compete for the ball at the breakdown in an effort to slow it down and not to try and win possession,” said Watson.

The shift in emphasis at the breakdown will force players to stay on their feet and they will not be able to dive in as they did in the past.
They are busy making rugby a game for poofters. Its going to backfire on SH rugby, big time.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
So a third of the tries are gone, more than double the penalties and all in the name of "running rugby"?

Anyone seen a stat on kicks during play? It will be less, but by how much?

But I'll reserve judgement uintil round 4.

:nta:
 
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