Waratahs 2013

[Badger]

5) Execution of basic skills. This is the very last point where it should be. Some players are clearly not developed in some of their core skills. These are indeed young players that haven't played much senior club footy. So where else are they going to hone these skills if not at the hands of a master coach at Super Level where they are now contracted? If said coaches cannot do it or do not have time these players are going to struggle. Into the execution equation comes the first four factors. If the first four are lacking the exceution will struggle in any event, and IMO that is what we have seen.

I would be extremely surprised if a thorough cleanout of Management and coaching and all support staff, with open invitations to all (except the board) to reapply for their jobs, did not achieve markedly better game play and finally results with the majority of this Squad remaining intact. There are only a couple of players who need to be moved on, and Tom Carter is not one of them IMO.

From the post Hurricanes press conference, one of the things they will be working on during the mid-season break is skills. Huh? What have they been doing all year?

Yeah, doubt they would have all roles declared open to applications as a few people may be found wanting and come up short. You would need strong leadership and the confidence to pull it off to do that.

 

[en_force_er]

Foley is 22, not a "talented schoolboy" but a young talent who earned his place through strong play for Uni. Why not play him at 10? Yes, he still makes errors but that's why giving him a run for the last 2 games is wise. This season is already a disaster. A good coach would tell him -- go out there, try your hand, don't worry about mistakes. The Tahs need to salvage something from the season. IMO, blooding Foley at 10 is one of their options.

I think you completely missed my point about something working once not proving it always works.

What I was saying is, just because Larkhan became a world class 10 and performed on his first 'class one' (as they say in SA) game there (which happened to be for the Wallabies) doesn't mean it would work to do that for every talented fullback, this is much in the same way that it isn't good to give every talented schoolboy a run in Super rugby their first year out of school (like in the case of Beale). Just because something worked once doesn't make it a good idea always, that's why I don't like people citing the Larkham example.

To make a completely different point I think Foley should be ran at 10 for the Tahs but certainly not for the Wallabies, yet.

 

[It is what it is]

I mean, we could always just play Barnes for another season at 10 just to see if he really and truly is bad there for the Waratahs. A four-year sample is just that much more conclusive.

Yep, why not go for a 4 yr trial with Barnes.......Tilse has been there 8 years and still seems to be on trial.
Good judges can make a decision on a player after seeing 2-3 games, not 4 to 8 years worth.

 

[It is what it is]

Barnes could be the 10 the Tahs need. So could Foley. Hewat could have been, so could Donnelly and a few others.

The problems do not reside with the playing group. There are a few issues there yes. But shuffling the players and scapegoating some like Carter will not change the fundamentals.

On another Thread I posted:-
1) The Tahs are not fit. (see Bruces lengthy posts on this fact and the results which show they fade badly in the back 15 of each half)
2) The tactics. They cannot decide if they want to kick or run or a combination of the two. They appear confused and lack a clear plan.
3) The selection. With regard to the tactics they select incorrectly to execute the game plan. Not on game day but when building the squad. Furthermore they select players they know to be unfit and unlikely to be fit for most of the season.
4) Captaincy. What a farce. Need it be explained.
5) Execution of basic skills. This is the very last point where it should be. Some players are clearly not developed in some of their core skills. These are indeed young players that haven't played much senior club footy. So where else are they going to hone these skills if not at the hands of a master coach at Super Level where they are now contracted? If said coaches cannot do it or do not have time these players are going to struggle. Into the execution equation comes the first four factors. If the first four are lacking the exceution will struggle in any event, and IMO that is what we have seen.

I would be extremely surprised if a thorough cleanout of Management and coaching and all support staff, with open invitations to all (except the board) to reapply for their jobs, did not achieve markedly better game play and finally results with the majority of this Squad remaining intact. There are only a couple of players who need to be moved on, and Tom Carter is not one of them IMO.

Tom Carter has to go.
He's too slow and has been caught out far too often when it matters.
You cannot hide defensively in the centres and teams will target him to pieces.
He's been a loyal servant but unlike a good bottle of Red, he will not get better with age.
You're taking the P to put up Hewat and oompa loompa Donnelly as legitimate Super Rugby No 10's (if you want to win).
Rest of your points are valid.

 

[Galloping Green]

Unfortunately, they were replaying the Horrortahs's V Hurricane's match at the SFS Gym this morning and I was put through a hair pulling exercise of watching them while I did a drill on the rowing machine. I don't know what was more painful. This is the most inept bunch of rugby players I have ever watched in my entire 45 years of being involved in the sport. Why haven't they got the message yet that you cannot score trys withyout the pill. What is it about rugby these days. We seem to have forgotten how to spin the ball across the backline to play quick phase ball, for the half back to pass the ball without doing the George Gregan initiated dance across field, running straight lines in attack and actually catching the ball and hanging on to it. For gods sake we could do this when we played amatuer football. Alas, these guys are getting paid serious money and expecting people to come and watch them. They are seriously misguided. Isn't there a coach in Sydney that can bring back the art of running rugby ? That being said I watched the Brumbies on Friday night against the Rebels and they weren't a whole lot better. Rugby in Australia is in a sad state indeed. Get rid of Foley now. We can't be put through any more of this crap. Schoolboy rugby is far more exciting and entertaining to watch and you what's more its free !!!

 

[Bruce Ross]

Tom Carter has to go.
He's too slow and has been caught out far too often when it matters.
You cannot hide defensively in the centres and teams will target him to pieces.

"has been caught out far too often when it matters". Please provide examples, iiwii. Hopefully you are not just relying on the Crusaders game this year.

"You cannot hide defensively in the centres and teams will target him to pieces." When has he ever "hid[den] defensively in the centres"? When have teams ever "target[ted] him to pieces"? This player has had a massive amount of negative comment written about him over the years, but you have certainly raised the bar in that respect. Your comments are absurd.
.

 

[en_force_er]

"has been caught out far too often when it matters". Please provide examples, iiwii. Hopefully you are not just relying on the Crusaders game this year.

"You cannot hide defensively in the centres and teams will target him to pieces." When has he ever "hid[den] defensively in the centres"? When have teams ever "target[ted] him to pieces"? This player has had a massive amount of negative comment written about him over the years, but you have certainly raised the bar in that respect. Your comments are absurd.
.

Bruce, despite your love of Tom Carter and how much he is a victory for the Uni rugby system (as far as working his way into super rugby at a more advanced age) even you can't easily argue he's a starting quality super rugby centre.

He's a great club man and obviously busts his guts with his work rate but he seems to me like a bloke that could have with changing to the forwards when he was colts aged. In the forwards his good traits you talk of (workrate) would be more valued and he wouldn't get beaten on the outside for pace on occasion. Yes, I know he's fast but he isn't fast for a centre playing super rugby.

I agree Carter isn't as bad as what the nay-sayers say but I don't think he's as good as you think he is either.

 

[Bruce Ross]

I'm really struggling, en_force_er, to work out what your comment has to do with my challenge to "It is what I said".

I'd be grateful if you would enlghten me.

 

[Athilnaur]

To say Tom Carter isn't a starting super rugby player is very unfair in my view, almost risible.

His performance last year was a bedrock of the Tahs game, his defensive performance exemplary, easily the best in the comp. His attack/kick chase also solid.

This year hes had one bad game, and one off game, when he was imo told to roam (or forced to?) out of position. Until then he'd been a driving force of the game. For years. Suddenly he wasn't after years of being one of the most reliable and driven players in the comp.

Dont ask if he should be there, ask what caused the change.



Ath.

 

[qwerty51]

Why is Carter even being discussed? He's clearly not the problem as he's been on the bench the last couple of games..

 

[Slim 293]

Bret Harris desperately clutching for a scoop with a hypothetical...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...the-waratahs-mix/story-e6frg7o6-1226381999485

 

[Richo]

Why is Carter even being discussed? He's clearly not the problem as he's been on the bench the last couple of games..

Because he's the easiest player to scapegoat for some reason?

 

[en_force_er]

I'm really struggling, en_force_er, to work out what your comment has to do with my challenge to "It is what I said".

I'd be grateful if you would enlghten me.

You consistently post replies to people that dislike Tom Carter, I'd say it has much to do with a big portion of the posts I see you making. I was just trying to present a view about the man, one I feel isn't unfairly positive or negative.

It's a forum in a thread titled Waratahs 2013, discussion evolves.

 

[redstragic]

Bret Harris desperately clutching for a scoop with a hypothetical...

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...the-waratahs-mix/story-e6frg7o6-1226381999485

I would assume that Ewan will fulfil his contract to the Reds. This type of rumouring really shits me. The fact that it makes it to our National paper is a disgrace.

 

[en_force_er]

I think it's fair to say that it's time Greg Peterson moves to another Australian super rugby side. It's admirable that he's expressed in the past that he doesn't want to jump the gun and move to a different team and that's he's keen to work his way up through the pathway but it's getting to the point that it's detrimental to his career.

Currently the Tahs have 2 experienced locks injured (Mumm and Vickerman), and they've brought in a bloke from outside of their initial squad (Richard Stanford) to cover instead of using a player that's been in their system for ages.

There is nothing wrong with what the Tahs are doing in picking the best 22 in their eyes and I don't see Gregg as ready to dominate super rugby but it'd be sad to see a player with potential miss out. Looking at the kinds of locks franchies have contracted I think his best bets are WA or the ACT. Hopefully he moves and starts getting super rugby games.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is Jeremy Tilse on contract for next year already?

Now that John Ulugia is the preferred replacement prop to him, it seems like it must be time to move him on.

Assuming Fitzpatrick is healthy at the start of next year, Ulugia would be the 3rd choice hooker and 4th choice prop which would suggest we should sign a young prop and work on his development.

 

[I like to watch]

judging by a few games I have seen Greg Peterson play for the Marlins, he is rightfully being overlooked by the Tahs.
he is not super standard ATM

 

[en_force_er]

judging by a few games I have seen Greg Peterson play for the Marlins, he is rightfully being overlooked by the Tahs.
he is not super standard ATM

Yeah for sure but I also think he's more promising then both Battye and Power.

 

[Wallatahs]

I would assume that Ewan will fulfil his contract to the Reds. This type of rumouring really shits me. The fact that it makes it to our National paper is a disgrace.

I agree. The fact that this story has drawn next to no comment on this forum (this and other threads) says a lot.

 

[fatprop]

I would assume that Ewan will fulfil his contract to the Reds. This type of rumouring really shits me. The fact that it makes it to our National paper is a disgrace.

despite it being bullocks, contracts get broken all the time