Waratah Shield 2013

[Hugh Jarse]

Waratah Shield Draw is out
Round 1 must be played by 24 May
Round 2 must be played by 19 July
Quarter finals to be played by 1 August
Semi Finals to tbe played by 14 August
Final on 28 August

Round 1 draw
St Augustines v Bye
St Andrews vs Daramalan

Farrer Ag vs Prariewood High
Westfield Sports vs Kinross Wolaroi

St Patricks vs Homebush Boys High
Bye vs Marist ACT

St Stannies vs Bye
Illawarra Sports v Knox Grammar

Trinity Goulburn v St Edmunds
Hills Sports vs Bye

Endeavour Sports vs Randwick Boys
The Bye vs Oakhill

Handbook is here:-
http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/Waratah_Shield__Cup_Handbook_2013.pdf
The Draw is at Appendix Three to the Handbook

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

That is most interesting - I look forward to seeing updates of the scores. No love lost in the Homebush High game, thats for sure...

 

[Quick Hands]

Waratah Shield Draw is out
Round 1 must be played by 24 May
Round 2 must be played by 19 July
Quarter finals to be played by 1 August
Semi Finals to tbe played by 14 August
Final on 28 Sugust

Round 1 draw
St Augustines v Bye
St Andrews vs Daramalan

Farrer Ag vs Prariewood High
Westfield Sports vs Kinross Wolaroi

St Patricks vs Homebush Boys High
Bye vs Marist ACT

St Stannies vs Bye
Illawarra Sports v Knox Grammar

Trinity Goulburn v St Edmunds
Hills Sports vs Bye

Endeavour Sports vs Randwick Boys
The Bye vs Oakhill

Handbook is here:-
http://www.nswschoolsrugby.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/Waratah_Shield__Cup_Handbook_2013.pdf
The Draw is at Appendix Three to the Handbook

The situation in CHS rugby is even worse that I thought. 4 sports high schools entered (not Narrabeen in the heart of rugby territory), 1 selective agricultural boarding school (Farrar) and 3 comprehensive high schools out of how many state high schools in the state of New South Wales? In my day almost every state high school in NSW entered and there were about 5 rounds before the quarter finals.

I basically looks like the sports high schools v the ISA with a few others thrown in.

If you look at the past winners on the link, you'll notice that for the first 25 years CHS schools were almost completely dominant.

Are the rugby powers that be in this state even aware of this???

 

[Lindommer]

Only 19 schools in this long-standing and prestigious competition. Appalling!

 

[Quick Hands]

Only 19 schools in this long-standing and prestigious competition. Appalling!

It's even worse when you look at the breakdown:

3 Independent Catholic schools from the ACT
6 ISA schools
1 CAS school
1 Regional Catholic High school
4 Sports High schools
1 rural state Agricultural/Boarding school
3 comprehensive state high schools

So 10 of the schools are independent schools with rugby programmes and 4 are sports high schools (14/19) and another is a country boarding school (15/19)

That means we are left with 1 regional systemic catholic school and 3 comprehensive state schools who play rugby to a standard high enough to consider entering!

Not one systemic catholic school in the Sydney metropolitan area!

Not one school public or private between Wahroonga and Tweed Heads!

Scandalous.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The details on the Waratah Cup participation are yet to be published.
The winner and runner up of this competition get a free pass to the Shield 1/4 finals.

It looks like there will be 16 Rugby Gala days held at the start of term 2 (before 13 May) with the winners progressing in a knockout format to the next round until finals.

IIRC one of the 2012 Waratah Cup finalists declined to participate in the Shield competition 1/4 finals. Could have been for logistics reasons or could have been that they were drawn against Oakhill or St Auggies. Player safety (a la SBHS in AAGPS) may be a consideration for these "part time" school teams coming up against teams from the likes of Selective Sports High Schools, or leading ISA Schools.

Good luck and respect to the organisers of this tournament. Their rearguard action to promote and grow heavensgame within the NSW Schools education system is to be applauded but ultimately seems rather similar to that of King Canute, and parallel to the dodekathlon assigned a few years back to a young Greek bloke called Heracles.
Meanwhile the Shiraz in the St Leonards, and Moore Park Bunker boardrooms is served at a perfect temperature.

You can bet your bottom dollar that every gala day participant will be counted in the annual rugby census.

Rugby is an Olympic sport, and Kenya is better at it than we are.

 

[Schools Rugby Tribune]

Mr Jarse, you are indeed on of my favourite 'raconteurs' on this forum!

 

[Quick Hands]

The details on the Waratah Cup participation are yet to be published.
The winner and runner up of this competition get a free pass to the Shield 1/4 finals.

It looks like there will be 16 Rugby Gala days held at the start of term 2 (before 13 May) with the winners progressing in a knockout format to the next round until finals.

IIRC one of the 2012 Waratah Cup finalists declined to participate in the Shield competition 1/4 finals. Could have been for logistics reasons or could have been that they were drawn against Oakhill or St Auggies. Player safety (a la SBHS in AAGPS) may be a consideration for these "part time" school teams coming up against teams from the likes of Selective Sports High Schools, or leading ISA Schools.

Good luck and respect to the organisers of this tournament. Their rearguard action to promote and grow heavensgame within the NSW Schools education system is to be applauded but ultimately seems rather similar to that of King Canute, and parallel to the dodekathlon assigned a few years back to a young Greek bloke called Heracles.
Meanwhile the Shiraz in the St Leonards, and Moore Park Bunker boardrooms is served at a perfect temperature.

You can bet your bottom dollar that every gala day participant will be counted in the annual rugby census.

Rugby is an Olympic sport, and Kenya is better at it than we are.

I think that St Augustine's have been on the receiving end of forfeits in the past rew years - local schools just can't compete against a school (not just St Augustine's) who have a rugby programme. Result, now they are the only school on the northern beaches who enter. As they attract more rugby players to enrol - the other schools become so weak that they don't play. I would assume that this situation is replicated all over Sydney. No Epping Boys' High, no Marist Eastwood, no North Sydney Boys' (once the stongest rugby school north of the Harbour Bridge who no longer play rugby at all I'm told) and on and on I assume it goes.

The part highlighted is the bit which really sticks in my craw as it allows the adminstrators to publish statistics which show how wonderful everything is - player numbers gowing etc. It's a bit like the old Soviet Union - factory administrators used to send wonderful production statistics to keep head office at the Kremlin happy even though half the machines were broken and not making anything. (Send bad news and you're off to Siberia etc)

Attempt to raise these issues with rugby officialdom and you're met with a similar treatment (without the snow).

 

[The Galah]

It is deplorable that the competition has descended to this .Perhaps the issue is as the Waratah Shield was historically played by state high schools uncontaminated by GPS and CAS the powers that be don't care. I well recall from my time in short pants at Epping going along to T G Milner on a Sunday for the semi finals - even allowing for youthful impressions the crowd must have been a couple of thousand . The teams were Epping , Belmore , Lyneham and Stannies.....the reasons for the demise of the first 3 are obvious. James Ruse (consider the student cohort) were competitive in those days . I well remember the dust ups when i was playing first XV a few years later.

The real crime is the continued resistance to a vertical horizontal competition between GPS , CAS and ISA while some of our most elite schools who resist it take cash from AFL. As for CHS (read sports highs now) and systemic Catholic schools we need the Waratah Shield

 

[Kenny Powers]

I don't know that blame for the decline in the Waratah Shield can be attributed to the GPS, CAS and IAS, it's a long bow to draw given the limted historical participation from these schools.

The key issues are to do with the State Schools
- selective sports schools concentrate talent in a few schools, as much as GPS scholarships gains attention on this website, this is a far more destructive to schoolboy rugby at far more schools than what goes on at the GPS. Selective high schools field 4 teams that is almost 80 boys taken from other CHS teams and concentrated in just 4 schools.
- not 100% sure but I assume the the Education Department has to insure it's rugby players. I imagine that some bean counter is doing cartwheels over reduce insurance premiums with fewer teams.
- the ARU should cover the insurance this would provide some encouragement
- the numbers of male teachers would be falling
- in rugby things don't always go right being a contact sport, on field and off field violence issues hopefully rare but they do happen. As a teacher why would you risk your career in the public system a lot of potential downside with no upside for any teacher who sticks their hand up to be involved.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

"Epping , Belmore , Lyneham and Stannies...the reasons for the demise of the first 3 are obvious..."

Sorry, (I have been away overseas)... for what reason is this obvious?

I must admit, when I read those fixtures, I assumed there had been some sort of CHS 'qualifier' to whittle them down to that number - obviously this is not the case.

I see no reason why all schools such as those from Bathurst, Orange, Tamworth Armidale & Goulburn etc would not enter this competition, given the limits to their opther competition... Also All the major ISA and CAS schools ought to be knocking the door down. I applaud those CAS and ISA schools who do participate - such as St Patrick's, Oakhill, Scots and Barker for example.... GPS? its hard to expect anything better from this organisation I'm afraid.

 

[The Galah]

"Epping , Belmore , Lyneham and Stannies.the reasons for the demise of the first 3 are obvious."

Sorry, (I have been away overseas). for what reason is this obvious?

I must admit, when I read those fixtures, I assumed there had been some sort of CHS 'qualifier' to whittle them down to that number - obviously this is not the case.

I see no reason why all schools such as those from Bathurst, Orange, Tamworth Armidale & Goulburn etc would not enter this competition, given the limits to their opther competition. Also All the major ISA and CAS schools ought to be knocking the door down. I applaud those CAS and ISA schools who do participate - such as St Patrick's, Oakhill, Scots and Barker for example.. GPS? its hard to expect anything better from this organisation I'm afraid.

HW&C - my reference to the reasons being obvious followed by reference to Ruse were a reference to the reality of changing demographics and the cultural backgrounds ergo sporting preference or suitability of likely physique for competitive open schoolboy rugby of a lot of the student cohort at those schools . There is understandably an academic focus of some these formerly excellent rugby schools which attracts that cohort. Lyneham may not so readily fit that explanation . Lets not beat around the bush - elite rugby despite its global reach tends,in multi cultural Australia 2013 and despite some proud country strongholds, to be the preserve (but not exclusively) the game of white middle class privilege or players of Pacific Island background. I too applaud those CAS and ISA schools (forget GPS which seems to inhabit a time warp) who participate in the Waratah Shield but the ARU needs to do a hell of a lot more to win its small share of the hearts and minds of suburban Australia and axiomatically CHS member schools

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

I have read that back now several times.. and am now attempting to 'sound' it out slowly, as I mouth the words.

Am I to understand that you think Belmore is not competitve due to its ethnic makeup? - and do you feel this is a widespread problem? and what actually is a "resistance to a vertical horizontal competition"?

I agree with your comments about P.I. palyers - but they are just a natural part of the ethnic make-up of the Australian East Coast these days - its fair enough, and a good thing in the long run. (Mind you, Sydney High used to field some massive '15 & 16 y.o.s.' with 3-day growths in the late 70s / early 80s - and they were not P.I.s).

I agree that more emphasis should be put on this competition - not by 'co-ercion' but by preference. Perhaps the fact that the Waratah Shield is struggling a few years after it kicked out one school for being 'too good' is no surprise.

Its a cart-before-the-horse' discussion, but that kind of mindset has NO place in Rugby. If someone is doing better than others, it is up to the others to catch up - or not. What perhaps should have happeened at the time was the NWSRU or ARU stepping in to try and encourage some stiffer opposition for that School within the Waratah Shield.

Someone raised the issue of Insurance Costs - this is an issue the ARU ought to be addressing - perhaps in the form of an ongoing Sponsorship by a major Insurer, in each State...

What by the way has become of Matraville High? Nth Sydney Boy's High? Randwick Boy's High? I am curious, as they don't appear in the draw.

 

[The Galah]

I have read that back now several times.. and am now attempting to 'sound' it out slowly, as I mouth the words.

Am I to understand that you think Belmore is not competitve due to its ethnic makeup? - and do you feel this is a widespread problem? and what actually is a "resistance to a vertical horizontal competition"?

I agree with your comments about P.I. palyers - but they are just a natural part of the ethnic make-up of the Australian East Coast these days - its fair enough, and a good thing in the long run. (Mind you, Sydney High used to field some massive '15 & 16 y.o.s.' with 3-day growths in the late 70s / early 80s - and they were not P.I.s).

I agree that more emphasis should be put on this competition - not by 'co-ercion' but by preference. Perhaps the fact that the Waratah Shield is struggling a few years after it kicked out one school for being 'too good' is no surprise.

Its a cart-before-the-horse' discussion, but that kind of mindset has NO place in Rugby. If someone is doing better than others, it is up to the others to catch up - or not. What perhaps should have happeened at the time was the NWSRU or ARU stepping in to try and encourage some stiffer opposition for that School within the Waratah Shield.

Someone raised the issue of Insurance Costs - this is an issue the ARU ought to be addressing - perhaps in the form of an ongoing Sponsorship by a major Insurer, in each State.

What by the way has become of Matraville High? Nth Sydney Boy's High? Randwick Boy's High? I am curious, as they don't appear in the draw.

Sorry for being unclear . Yes I do suspect Belmore like many other schools are not competitive because of changed ethnic make up influencing both students sporting preference and physical aptitude for game. One might also add that diversity of sporting choice for high school students compounds the ethnic diversity's impact on rugby . Its not a problem at all indeed quite the opposite from a broad social perspective but is a problem for rugby - which at the top does not have enough cash and until recently much vision. P.I , players are part of the solution as small but significant part of the community.

The vertical / horizontal comp is really another debate and will do little to enhance Waratah Shield anyway being a GPS/CAS/ISA issue - the resistance is as I understand it not coming from ISA and the other two seem to point the finger at each other. As to the schools you identify no idea but I'd venture the same as Epping etc

No easy answers perhaps we accept being the 4th ranked football code and uncompromisingly enjoy it for what we love about it

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Hell West & Crooked, Randwick Boys High School is in the Waratah Shield.

They play Endeavour Sports High in Round 1.

Their team is likely to be filled with Loig and Dual code players. Better players from that catchment tend to end up at Private Schools, forcing the School to rely on their loig and dual code boys.

IIRC their coach is still Karen Mould (daughter of Geoff Mould). The Wicks typically send some coaching assistance to Randwick Boys High School.

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

sorry - I missed the listing for Randwick...

I can tell you what WOULD increase participation in the Waratah Shield - across Public & Private Schools alike...

If the NSWRU was able to arrange some Sponsorship, so that the Winning School received a literal TRUCKLOAD of Sports Equipment across several different Sports, along with the Trophy, and the Runner-up had someone like Kooga or Canterbury Sponsor to kit out all their (Rugby) teams for the following year...

Its not really big dollars, but it would make a hell of a difference to may schools...

Ain't too proud to Beg.

 

[jamey jones]

do any a.c.t teams have a chance this year

 

[stokes]

do any a.c.t teams have a chance this year

St Edmunds beat St Augustines in recent trial, must be a chance

 

[Hell West & Crooked]

Are there any results from this Waratah Shield Draw so far - or too early yet...

 

[hbhrugby]

Some first round action tomorrow with the might of Homebush Boys taking on the boys of St Patrick's, on St Pats main oval.

I'm going to make a bold prediction that Homebush boys will give St Pats a real go tomorrow and push for an upset win. Can't wait for the local derby!!