Wallabies 2023

[footy1>31]

Eddie Jones has already dug himself an enormous hole and succumbed to the same mistake of previous coaching groups by appointing two players who are lightweight for their respective positions into key leadership roles.

Slipper (117kg) and Hooper (100kg) were notably monstered by their opposites, De Groot (127kg) and Papali'i (113kg) in the 3 Bledisloe Cup tests last year. Only when Angus Bell (125kg) started have the Wallabies achieved legitimate periods of dominance against top five test opposition during Dave Rennie's tenure.

As the Wallabies most experienced (and most successful) game managers Quade Cooper & White should share the captaincy. With Quade directing the team the Wallabies have won 65% of their tests, the Brumbies have won a Championship & multiple games against NZ opposition - without even a 10 running the team (until this year) but through Nick White as their primary playmaker and game manager.

These guys know how to win against NZ opposition and are proven serial winners at the elite level, Hooper and Slipper have never been...

what does quade winning tests in 2010 and 2011 have to do with leadership ability now?

 

[TSR]

I thought Nonggorr scrummed pretty well. Most of the Reds scrum issues were at loose head prop. I also think it was no coincidence that the Reds scrum was noticeably stronger when we had two genuine locks.

Nonggorr isn’t replacing Tupou or Ala'alatoa anytime soon but I think Nonngorr was better than either Fa’amausili or Talakai.

 

[liquor box]

Having time off for mental health does not mean you are broken forever. The same as a broken leg.

People recover.

Mental health stigma is alive and well though - this is why no one speaks out.

The stigma is the big issue, while most agree that you can recover, there are many people, possibly even team mates who don't understand mental health recovery and may feel he is a liability, or that he somehow gave up on the team.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Eddie Jones has already dug himself an enormous hole and succumbed to the same mistake of previous coaching groups by appointing two players who are lightweight for their respective positions into key leadership roles.

Slipper (117kg) and Hooper (100kg) were notably monstered by their opposites, De Groot (127kg) and Papali'i (113kg) in the 3 Bledisloe Cup tests last year. Only when Angus Bell (125kg) started have the Wallabies achieved legitimate periods of dominance against top five test opposition during Dave Rennie's tenure.

As the Wallabies most experienced (and most successful) game managers Quade Cooper & White should share the captaincy. With Quade directing the team the Wallabies have won 65% of their tests, the Brumbies have won a Championship & multiple games against NZ opposition - without even a 10 running the team (until this year) but through Nick White as their primary playmaker and game manager.

These guys know how to win against NZ opposition and are proven serial winners at the elite level, Hooper and Slipper have never been...

You know that White and Cooper are likely to be the starting halves combo, right?

 

[Namerican]

I think people tend read way too much into who the Captain is. Jones is probably going to play Slipper/Hooper regardless, based on his assessments of their play, so if they have a C on them or not it doesn't matter. It also brings continuity as opposed to changing the Captaincy willy nilly. These are people, so it is always going to be awkward if you just demote people in your organization on the regular. Alright, today Quade is the Captain. Oh he played poorly, let's make it Kerevi etc. It isn't a video game. If you take the Captaincy away from Slipper/Hooper now it's throwing shade on two key players. And for what? The radical difference that would be rendered by Nic White being Captain? Makes no sense.

In general though the Captain isn't that important. Ever notice that amazing Captains look amazing when they are also surrounded by a team of amazing players?

Kolisi plays with Lood, Etzebeth, Marx, Vermuleun, Faf, Am, and on and on. If the team sucked people will say Kolisi is too passive, doesn't work the ref well, doesn't motivate the players. If they win he's the stoic leader they always needed.

Richie McCaw was the best Captain in rugby history, right? He also played on the best team in the history of the sport, filled with all-time greats at almost every position. Surely a coincidence. If he was the Captain of Argentina in 2011 people would say McCaw cheats too much to be Captain, isn't a rah-rah guy, isn't physical enough for the job, and all kinds of assorted nonsense.

All Blacks Captains have gotten "worse" (McCaw to Read to Cane) simultaneous to the team and NZ rugby in general getting worse. Sam Cane as Captain on a winning team would be revered as the hardest player in world rugby, the toughest etc. Instead his team is (historically for NZ) bad so it must reflect him being a crap Captain. Couldn't possibly be the fact that they rely on aging players at key positions, have a bad coach, no consistent center combinations, no consistent fullback, inconsistent props, few impact forwards on the bench etc.

 

[DoubleCodeTraitor]

I'm genuinely curious who these 3/4 NRL players are supposed to be.

I'm more of a league fan, hence the username.

I think it's likely Koloa and Penisini. They'd be fantastic pick ups for the wallabies.

I also have a sneaky feeling that Cleary might want to switch over. He plays 7 in league like a 10 in union.

It's pure speculation on my part, but he's won everything he can win in league... No grown man wants to play under their Dad for the majority of their career.

That's no knock on Ivan either. Fantastic coach.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I'm genuinely curious who these 3/4 NRL players are supposed to be.

I'm more of a league fan, hence the username.

I think it's likely Koloa and Penisini. They'd be fantastic pick ups for the wallabies.

I also have a sneaky feeling that Cleary might want to switch over. He plays 7 in league like a 10 in union.

It's pure speculation on my part, but he's won everything he can win in league... No grown man wants to play under their Dad for the majority of their career.

That's no knock on Ivan either. Fantastic coach.

Darius Boyd did.

I think at most its a wish list more than genuine hard targets. If I was to guess names with no comment on current contracts I’d say Koula, Murray, Crichton, Tulangi and a Smokey might be Ilias at Souths who has played before.

Cleary would have to want to do it because he’d cost more than Sua’ali’i on what he’s paid by Penrith. Also don’t think he’s ever played before has he?

Anywho, this is wallabies 2023 which won’t see any of these names.

 

[Tomthumb]

Slim, it looks to me that Slipper and Gibbon are the sole two LHPs scheduled to go to SA. As Highlander35 says, I am concerned about what happens if one of those goes down with injury/illness pre-game. I don't particularly like H35's suggestion that a THP would have to change sides, especially against a hard scrumming side like the Saffas. I just reckon Eddie has fluffed his squad in this respect, and hopefully he will recognise it and include one of the "train on" LHPs to go.

Realistically, if you can play tighthead there is no reason you cant play loosehead. Keep your body straight, get your head under their chest and be aggressive

 

[qwerty51]

Penisini and Koula just recently re-signed didn’t they? Cleary I assume has never played rugby ever.

 

[Froggy]

Hooper was made captain by McKenzie, not Cheika, when Moore was injured. He was then retained by Cheika, Rennie and now Jones. He was also co-captain of the Aus 20's, captained the Tahs under Gibson, after which he advised Penney he no longer wanted to captain the Tahs, and even then GC made him acting captain when Gordon was injured. It's a pity all these people know so much less than the contributors to GAGR!
Incidentally, if I had to name the best Wallaby captain I've seen in my time it would be Nick Farr-Jones

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Penisini and Koula just recently re-signed didn’t they? Cleary I assume has never played rugby ever.

Yep Pennisini end of 2025 and Koula end of 2027.

 

[DoubleCodeTraitor]

Cleary.grew up in NZ when his dad was coaching the warriors.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I lived in Melbourne for 4 years. Can't play Aussie Rules

 

[DoubleCodeTraitor]

I lived in Melbourne for 4 years. Can't play Aussie Rules

I live in Wales. Best marker and drop punter in the country

 

[Froggy]

Just a couple of comments on the squad (I know it's been done to death, but my thoughts anyway)
The players I think are dead lucky, and wouldn't be in my squad are Uelese, Donaldson and Vunivalu. I have yet to see the much vaunted reputation of Vunivalu, Donadlson had two good games all year and for mine would be behind Lolesio (who also wouldn't be in my squad) and likewise Uelese only had one or two good games and can't throw.
Left field selections I thought deserved their unlikely selection are Nongoor, Kemeny and Peitsch, all players I rate and I think wouldn't let a Wallabies side down.
The unlucky ones I believe are L Lonergan and Neville. I can see why Neville missed out with the two overseas selections, but how Uelese is selected ahead of Lonergan baffles me.
As to captaincy, my position on Hooper is known (positive) but while fine with Slipper, my co-captain selection would have been AAA.

 

[fatprop]

Vunivalu? despite appearing uninterested and somewhat lethargic finds the try line

Uelese? he does well when fit, he is just made of glass

i rate Kemeny, he is in the effective, workrate sub set of backrowers, one will put their hand up, we need a couple badly to balance out the backrow

​

 

[KevinO]

Having time off for mental health does not mean you are broken forever. The same as a broken leg.

People recover.

Mental health stigma is alive and well though - this is why no one speaks out.

Wasn't saying his broken for ever, I'm saying don't add extra stress to the job.

 

[Members Section]

Just a couple of comments on the squad (I know it's been done to death, but my thoughts anyway)
The players I think are dead lucky, and wouldn't be in my squad are Uelese, Donaldson and Vunivalu. I have yet to see the much vaunted reputation of Vunivalu, Donadlson had two good games all year and for mine would be behind Lolesio (who also wouldn't be in my squad) and likewise Uelese only had one or two good games and can't throw.
Left field selections I thought deserved their unlikely selection are Nongoor, Kemeny and Peitsch, all players I rate and I think wouldn't let a Wallabies side down.
The unlucky ones I believe are L Lonergan and Neville. I can see why Neville missed out with the two overseas selections, but how Uelese is selected ahead of Lonergan baffles me.
As to captaincy, my position on Hooper is known (positive) but while fine with Slipper, my co-captain selection would have been AAA.

The only reason he is selected ahead of anyone is his scrumming. Look at every hooker eddie picked for eng for 7 years not too many under size.

 

[KevinO]

Hooper was made captain by McKenzie, not Cheika, when Moore was injured. He was then retained by Cheika, Rennie and now Jones. He was also co-captain of the Aus 20's, captained the Tahs under Gibson, after which he advised Penney he no longer wanted to captain the Tahs, and even then GC made him acting captain when Gordon was injured. It's a pity all these people know so much less than the contributors to GAGR!
Incidentally, if I had to name the best Wallaby captain I've seen in my time it would be Nick Farr-Jones

Hooper never took on the captaincy in a full time role until Moore retired, did the odd game before but was made the permanent captain in 2017. Well after the McKenzie tender and once Cheika tender starting moving backwards.

 

[Dctarget]

Eddie completely snubbed Harry Thacker who IMO is Longeran but better.