Wallabies 2020

[Adam84]

Who are the Argentina coaches? They would be good candidates for the Wallaby coaching position in the future based off today.

 

[TSR]

It helps they employed a well executed kicking game

 

[KOB1987]

Who are the Argentina coaches? They would be good candidates for the Wallaby coaching position in the future based off today.

Ledesma and Cheika?

 

[cyclopath]

Ledesma and Cheika?

I think he was being ironical.

 

[rodha]

Ledesma and Cheika?

Didn't Cheika & Ledesma win a Heineken Cup, Super Rugby & Rugby Championship title coaching together?

They seem to be an under-rated coaching combination, probably no coincidence the Wallabies last decent period during the Cheika-era was right before Ledesma left (after the 23-18) win over the All Blacks in Brisbane, October 2017.

Also I recall Ledesma was brought into the Wallabies set-up in 2015 & they improved considerably, before that the Wallabies had a pretty average record during the beginning of Cheika's stint in 2014.

 

[drewprint]

He has received a bigger offer from Japan, RA won’t release him.

But yeah, the negative narrative from News Corp press has increased in the past few days

Thanks mate. Sorry, just saw you guys had already been discussing this in the Rebels thread.

 

[Adam84]

Didn't Cheika & Ledesma win a Heineken Cup, Super Rugby & Rugby Championship title coaching together?

They seem to be an under-rated coaching combination, probably no coincidence the Wallabies last decent period during the Cheika-era was right before Ledesma left (after the 23-18) win over the All Blacks in Brisbane, October 2017.

Also I recall Ledesma was brought into the Wallabies set-up in 2015 & they improved considerably, before that the Wallabies had a pretty average record during the beginning of Cheika's stint in 2014.

Record did improve in 2015, and fall of a cliff in 2019...to argue that was Ledesma is a correlation vs causation argument to be had.

In saying that I don’t think their time together really had the Midas touch; in 2016 Wallabies lost all 3 tests to England on home soil, wallabies lost all 3 tests to the all blacks, and lost to Ireland and England on the end of year tour. In 2017 before Ledesma left, Wallabies has already lost to All Blacks twice, and also had an embarrassing loss to Scotland.

 

[Joe Blow]

Any news on LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) and JOC (James O'Connor)? Looks like we will need to be at our best on the weekend.

 

[hammertimethere]

Rumour was Koroibete got offered a monster packet in Japan (3M+ over two seasons or something like that, basically SBW money) despite still be under contract with RA (which is irritating, who is his manager?) and RA are not keen on doing a release for him, and I can see why he's currently our best player.

That said, I wouldn't be mad if RA took a long term view and said they would work with him to get it done as a sabbatical type arrangement if he penned himself in until 2023 with the Rebels and Wobs. It's a life changing amount of money, and like every footy player he's only a knee injury away from retirement. Might ease some money pressures in Australia for a few years, allow Daugunu, Wright and Vunivalu to take centre stage for 21 and 22

 

[TSR]

My concern is it also give a green light to every player manager to shop their client while under contract.

I assume a lot of them do that anyway - but RA would be shooting themselves in the foot to encourage it.

 

[sendit]

Rumour was Koroibete got offered a monster packet in Japan (3M+ over two seasons or something like that, basically SBW money) despite still be under contract with RA (which is irritating, who is his manager?) and RA are not keen on doing a release for him, and I can see why he's currently our best player.

That said, I wouldn't be mad if RA took a long term view and said they would work with him to get it done as a sabbatical type arrangement if he penned himself in until 2023 with the Rebels and Wobs. It's a life changing amount of money, and like every footy player he's only a knee injury away from retirement. Might ease some money pressures in Australia for a few years, allow Daugunu, Wright and Vunivalu to take centre stage for 21 and 22

I think that’s a smart option given how old he is and the way he plays, send him over to Japan for two years if he agrees to a 2-3 year contract on return. My only worry is that the Wallabies need to form some winning habits and get some runs on the board, I think we’re much more likely to do that with him here than we are without him

 

[hammertimethere]

My concern is it also give a green light to every player manager to shop their client while under contract.

I assume a lot of them do that anyway - but RA would be shooting themselves in the foot to encourage it.

Fair point

 

[wamberal]

My concern is it also give a green light to every player manager to shop their client while under contract.

I assume a lot of them do that anyway - but RA would be shooting themselves in the foot to encourage it.

These are troubled times, we are all being shot in the foot, figuratively speaking. RA needs to show a bit of compassion in making decisions like this. What sort of family responsibilities does he have? Players from nations like Fiji are likely to have family members there for whom they provide a lot of financial support.

What does Rennie think? There is a limited amount of money available to pay for the Wobbs, the head coach should have a big say in how it is dispersed amongst the player cadre.

In other words, let us not rush to judgment. This is a complex decision, with a few variables, some of which we have no deep knowledge of.

 

[Dctarget]

Rumour was Koroibete got offered a monster packet in Japan (3M+ over two seasons or something like that

Cooked. How are we ever to compete with Japan like that, we need to some how become more collaborative.

The man is a one man army and has a bit of Dupont/Kolbe game breaking skill about him and he's only getting better.

 

[rodha]

Ledesma mentioned in a interview that he highly regards Cheika as a coach, hence brought him on board for the Tri-Nations. Clearly these guys understand each other and work effectively together, Ledesma was very important on Australia making RWC2015 final having improved their scrum massively under his tenure.

I genuinely think that losing Ledesma in mid-2017 was a major blow for the Wallabies. The pack played so well while he was around, particularly in that 2015 run, bullying England in the pool match. The result last night only cements my opinion that Cheika and Ledesma are best when together. The Wallabies forwards never truly hit the same heights after he left.

 

[molman]

Ledesma mentioned in a interview that he highly regards Cheika as a coach, hence brought him on board for the Tri-Nations. Clearly these guys understand each other and work effectively together, Ledesma was very important on Australia making RWC2015 final having improved their scrum massively under his tenure.

I genuinely think that losing Ledesma in mid-2017 was a major blow for the Wallabies. The pack played so well while he was around, particularly in that 2015 run, bullying England in the pool match. The result last night only cements my opinion that Cheika and Ledesma are best when together. The Wallabies forwards never truly hit the same heights after he left.

I don't think the Cheika/Larkham combo ever really worked as evidenced by Larkhams exit pre-RWC. Chieka definitely has a style about him which seems to complement that Argentinian passion.

It's hard to get a true feel for how Larkham is going at Munster with such a disrupted season this year. It will be interesting if he bounces back into Australia at some point. I'd argue that McKellar's setup down at the Brumbies has looked better than the Larkham era.

 

[TSR]

These are troubled times, we are all being shot in the foot, figuratively speaking. RA needs to show a bit of compassion in making decisions like this. What sort of family responsibilities does he have? Players from nations like Fiji are likely to have family members there for whom they provide a lot of financial support.

What does Rennie think? There is a limited amount of money available to pay for the Wobbs, the head coach should have a big say in how it is dispersed amongst the player cadre.

In other words, let us not rush to judgment. This is a complex decision, with a few variables, some of which we have no deep knowledge of.

To be clear - I’m not rushing to judgement. I don’t begrudge anyone trying to make the most of their circumstances and I get that these are unique times.

However, Koroibete did accept a written commercial offer from RA which was beneficial to his circumstances and meeting his commitments. It is a time bound commitment and, at the end of it, he has the right to seek alternatives. I am not sure of the extent to which COVID has impacted RA meeting it’s side, and I agree there is a legitimate argument there that impacted players should be given some flexibility - but whatever Koroibete’s personal circumstances his contract with RA is not one which only benefits them and is not one which he was forced into.

 

[Ignoto]

The result last night only cements my opinion that Cheika and Ledesma are best when together.

So far, the Argies have played one excellent game. It's a bit hard to say anything more than that.

We all know Chieka is excellent for a tournament, backs-against the wall and nothing to lose. Where he falls down is the 2 year mark when players see through his shtick but Chieka doesn't evolve his tactics or approach.

 

[footy1>31]

Koro is that good a player he would easily be in the two called from overseas. I'll always be a Cheika believer after 2014, less blindly after last years world cup, but love how is still a major source of divison on this board

 

[Adam84]

The issue is the precedence this sets.. it opens Pandora’s box to players getting released from their contracts as soon as a larger one comes along. It makes it near impossible to plan long term and, potentially will create even greater frustrations amongst the playing group if some players are approved to break contract early and other aren’t.

They could instead negotiate with him for a sabbatical next year and return the year after, but simply cutting away the contract entirely because another one offers more money isn’t a fair exchange IMO.