Trans Tasman 2022

[Rugbynutter39]

Assuming Trans Tasman next year time to think what team improvements could look like for next year.

Force should be better given their continuing recruitment

With MP (Moana Pasifika) and Fiji Drua chance oz sides may finish higher then they

Tahs should improve and with MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua chance they may avoid the wooden spoon.

Biggest concern for me is Brumbies and loss of some finishers depth but given usual brumby development factory I am sure the next level of players will come through

 

[Dan54]

Pretty well agree about Force, and MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua I would think wil fight for Wooden spoon in first 1-5 years at least.
I haven't seen who the Brumbies lose, but suspect they will always have a reasonable team. Still think the Reds are stillcapable of at least making finals, they are young and will only improve. Perhaps need to adapt game plan to not rely on Tupou quite so much, as they have bloody good loosies etc to build platform on. Tahs just have to improve, they surely have to see pay off from young fellas. Rebels I not sure about and Force will be Force and with some good buys they seem to have culture to do well.
In NZ, Crusaders will remain tough, Blues with BB back running the ship will be harder I think. Not sure where RTS (Roger Tuivasa-Sheck) will fit in as Zarn sullivan is playing bloody well. Canes will still struggle with the pack we got, Chiefs are going to be healtheir with the players they should have back. Clan will be Clan and think another team that will be better for experience.
It goes without saying I believe with a proper comp where they mix it week in and out the results of games will be closer.

 

[Derpus]

Be interesting to see what sort of budget the teams will have for recruitment. Everyone needs to recruit if we are to bridge the gap IMO. Reds desperately need cover for JOC (James O'Connor).

 

[dru]

Assuming Trans Tasman next year time to think what team improvements could look like for next year.

Force should be better given their continuing recruitment

With MP (Moana Pasifika) and Fiji Drua chance oz sides may finish higher then they

Tahs should improve and with MP (Moana Pasifika) and Drua chance they may avoid the wooden spoon.

Biggest concern for me is Brumbies and loss of some finishers depth but given usual brumby development factory I am sure the next level of players will come through

RN39, I have a whole off-season to get over myself but my rugby viewing decreased rapidly with TT. I will watch the Reds in 22. But even (non-Red) domestic games are unlikely to interest when there is nothing to play for. I see the game heading rapidly back the de-Clyne trend we were on previously.

MP (Moana Pasifika) easy favourites for the the wooden spoon. Drua may go close to top three of the Aus teams, depending on Force.

I imagine the structure of the Force are better positioned for improvement in TT than many other Aus teams. Reds need the bench bolstered and then a change in strategy and technique to go with it - especially D. I would think Brumbies OK for steady improve.

Hard to see where Waratahs are headed without something radical happening at high level.

There seems to be little reason to anticipate the sort of improvement across Australia that might result in meaningful changes in the table.

1. Kiwi
2. Kiwi
3. Kiwi
4. Kiwi
5. Kiwi
6. Reds
7. Force
8. Brumbies
9. Drua
10. Rebel
11. Waratahs
12. MP (Moana Pasifika)

Though 6 to 9 could be in any order, really. Hardly leaves the average fan full of vim.

 

[kiap]

Unfortunately I thought RA was planning on reducing the Super Rugby cap. While the game is brassic (skint) and in hock that's understandable.

The game must reform to move onto a better funded pro structure. While a lot of changes have been made since Patsy de Cline slinked out, we're not there yet.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Unfortunately I thought RA was planning on reducing the Super Rugby cap. While the game is brassic (skint) and in hock that's understandable.

The game must reform to move onto a better funded pro structure. While a lot changes have been made since Patsy de Cline slinked out, we're not there yet.

Thanks for the reminder about reducing salary cap as to me that makes things even more dire. I am avoiding the structural competition elements discussion as yes that should be another thread.

Obviously have concerns as I ended up towards back end of TT just fast forwarding through games, and if you can’t get people like me to watch entire games is a worry. Personally glad this TT over for me (don’t care which kiwi team wins it) as it became tedious to watching games.

I think the Force will be ok as well backed and continue to recruit well but concerns for other franchises as don’t have financial backing of a twiggy.

I am waiting to see what announced but If RA and NzRU think they can just plough on with TT for next year without a rethink of competition design and how can make for more even contests short and long term this TT will end up going down the same decline the last super rugby competition had.

 

[dru]

Obviously have concerns as I ended up towards back end of TT just fast forwarding through games, and if you can’t get people like me to watch entire games is a worry.

You were not on your own. Not at all.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Moana Pasifika's recruitment program isn't going well, partly due to their Super Rugby licence still only being provisional: players are obviously reluctant to commit given the uncertainty & meantime Japanese & Euro clubs are actively going after pasifika talent: Gerard Cowley-Tuioti & TJ Faiane are rumoured to be Japan-bound & both would be of huge benefit to MP (Moana Pasifika).

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-with-exabs-but-recruitment-challenges-emerge

 

[dru]

Moana Pasifika's recruitment program isn't going well, partly due to their Super Rugby licence still only being provisional:

Crazy situation. More than that though. MP (Moana Pasifika) eligible players in other NZ Super clubs were immediately prioritised in recruitment/retention drives by those clubs. Understandable from a club point of view, not so from a competition perspective.

Really cack-handed by NZR.

 

[swingpass]

Always back the horse named self interest

 

[Derpus]

MP (Moana Pasifika) is a doomed concept. I don't get where the money comes from. Auckland drew about 3 people to watch the Blues secure a finals berth. How the heck they gunna make MP (Moana Pasifika) financially sustainable?

Although diluting the NZ talent a little might help make the comp a little more bareable.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Crazy situation. More than that though. MP (Moana Pasifika) eligible players in other NZ Super clubs were immediately prioritised in recruitment/retention drives by those clubs. Understandable from a club point of view, not so from a competition perspective.

Really cack-handed by NZR.

Not defending NZR here but it's not solely their decision to confirm MP (Moana Pasifika)'s (or Drua's) licence.

 

[Dan54]

Unfortunately I thought RA was planning on reducing the Super Rugby cap. While the game is brassic (skint) and in hock that's understandable.

The game must reform to move onto a better funded pro structure. While a lot of changes have been made since Patsy de Cline slinked out, we're not there yet.

I had no idea that RA was planning on reducing Salary cap, that can be quite a problem

 

[Dan54]

Not defending NZR here but it's not solely their decision to confirm MP (Moana Pasifika)'s (or Drua's) licence.

Shhh WOB, of course it all NZR's fault!!!!
And I would guess as soon as the whole concept was thought of most clubs/franchsise around world,including NZ and Aus, tried to tie up those they wanted to keep.
And not always successfully I would guess with the numbers still going overseas!

I will add there is no way I can no Aus super teams in top 5 if the comp is played properly : ie with not having 2 sep comps first and then the one we had this year, which I thought an abortion, though understand why they had to do it with uncertainty over Covid.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Shhh WOB, of course it all NZR's fault!!!!
And I would guess as soon as the whole concept was thought of most clubs/franchsise around world,including NZ and Aus, tried to tie up those they wanted to keep.
And not always successfully I would guess with the numbers still going overseas!

I will add there is no way I can no Aus super teams in top 5 if the comp is played properly : ie with not having 2 sep comps first and then the one we had this year, which I thought an abortion, though understand why they had to do it with uncertainty over Covid.

Dan I provided a simple solution where NzRU is the hero and All blacks reign supreme for the next 100 years in the where art thou forum - enjoy...

 

[Dan54]

Dan I provided a simple solution where NzRU is the hero and All blacks reign supreme for the next 100 years in the where art thou forum - enjoy.

Don't want heroes mate, just EVERYONE working towards a solution. I still quite like Rebel3's answer fot TT mix both comps. Anything except repeat this year's fiasco. (Which to fair was forced by covid)

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Don't want heroes mate, just EVERYONE working towards a solution. I still quite like Rebel3's answer fot TT mix both comps. Anything except repeat this year's fiasco. (Which to fair was forced by covid)

Dan54 you speak music to my ears i.e. “EVERYONE” working towards a solution. I just hope this happens as will take a lot of collaboration, good will and hard work to get to a workable strategy and solution. History certainly tells us that.

Might add it is also about need for stakeholders to leave baggage behind, challenge traditional assumptions and be prepared to put everything on the table.

I will add nzr has the biggest warehouse of talent so restricting that talent to five kiwi teams and then wanting to do a joint competition with other countries won’t work. NZRU needs to open up better access to that talent for other franchises who participate in TT if they really want TT to works. I am 100% convinced about that.

 

[Dan54]

Dan54 you speak music to my ears i.e. “EVERYONE” working towards a solution. I just hope this happens as will take a lot of collaboration, good will and hard work to get to a workable strategy and solution. History certainly tells us that.

Might add it is also about need for stakeholders to leave baggage behind, challenge traditional assumptions and be prepared to put everything on the table.

I will add nzr has the biggest warehouse of talent so restricting that talent to five kiwi teams and then wanting to do a joint competition with other countries won’t work. NZRU needs to open up better access to that talent for other franchises who participate in TT if they really want TT to works. I am 100% convinced about that.

Yep and you know we will never agree, I know it is great idea, NZ do all the work to produce the players through training academies etc, and then farm them out, but you and I both know when that happens the franchises won't spend money on developing players to send elsewhere.
Regardless hopefully the NRC in a new format they talk of gets going , as I believe this is Aussie's answer. Geoff Parkes column in ROAR today sums up probably the problem.
Sean Wainui, after the game was asked what rest of season had in store? Well he hoped to make Maori All Blacks, and apart from that was looking forward to rejoining BOP in the NPC!
Basically going on with a high standard of rugby. And to the Super played from Aus???
I would actually add that trying to get Aus players in NPC teams would be a help, as has been done in past.
But I do say I hope that everyone get's together and works out a decent format, that will have to include neither NZ or Aus telling the other how to run their test teams etc.
Anyway we all want the same outcome, just how we get to it is the perplexing question!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yep and you know we will never agree, I know it is great idea, NZ do all the work to produce the players through training academies etc, and then farm them out, but you and I both know when that happens the franchises won't spend money on developing players to send elsewhere.
Regardless hopefully the NRC in a new format they talk of gets going , as I believe this is Aussie's answer. Geoff Parkes column in ROAR today sums up probably the problem.
Sean Wainui, after the game was asked what rest of season had in store? Well he hoped to make Maori All Blacks, and apart from that was looking forward to rejoining BOP in the NPC!
Basically going on with a high standard of rugby. And to the Super played from Aus???
I would actually add that trying to get Aus players in NPC teams would be a help, as has been done in past.
But I do say I hope that everyone get's together and works out a decent format, that will have to include neither NZ or Aus telling the other how to run their test teams etc.
Anyway we all want the same outcome, just how we get to it is the perplexing question!

It is simple long term we need to improve and grow but we ain’t going to do that in short term with 5 oz teams against 5 kiwi teams. And in a crowded domestic footy market which is our biggest focus for US we can’t have less then 5 teams, and can’t have 5 oz teams put up against 5 kiwi teams without more free flow of players.

Hence you really need to stop pushing for full TT without resolving this impasse as otherwise flogging a dead horse if we continue with TT without resolving this as we won’t improve and grow if thrashed by kiwi teams as won’t be any fans and less people wanting to play rugby. The last incarnation of super rugby nearly killed off oz rugby and TT looks like going down similar large unless we resolve this or accept if can’t to do our own thing.

My view is RA (with broadcaster support) puts a line in the sand and push for open borders policy for TT with quotas with proviso that RA demonstrates large scale reform and investment (with pe investment). If nzru does not accept this which is their right we let nzru do it is own thing and we follow our own path and look at alternatives with nz and Japan etc such as champions league. We have been pretending for too long that we can get work around the elephant in the room.

 

[sunnyboys]

The key stat in this discussion in "480,000". The number of people who tuned in to watch the SRAu final.

Does RA (and the broadcaster) want to walk away from that?