The Wallabies Thread

[louie]

As long as he wants.

Do they pay him in cash too?

 

[Slim 293]

Anyways, who gives a toss about the next RWC..........

How about we win back the Bledisloe first.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

I think he's got three years after this one. If we're going OK into 2019 I'd be very surprised if he didn't take us to Japan and maybe beyond.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Anyways, who gives a toss about the next RWC....

How about we win back the Bledisloe first.

That's objective No. 1 and it will do a lot to ease the hurt I think.

 

[cyclopath]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....

I don't comprehend how our lineout could be this bad when we've got Moore, who has for a number of years been a consistent excellent lineout thrower at international level, as well as Simmons and Fardy - jumpers who ran the two best lineouts in Super Rugby.....

I will not be surprised to see these players return to their Super Rugby teams and continue their excellent lineout form there....

It seems to be a coaching issue in the Wobs as none of the combination are working for whatever reason, and points to the possible need to bring in someone tidy this up because the amount of opportunities we squandered was pathetic.

I know you go back to this a bit Slim, and I see the argument, but maybe the big issue is the step up to International level (in terms of the pressure oppositions are putting on), and the different way in which Test rugby is played? Super rugby is undoubtedly played with a different mindset around what set-pieces are there to do. I can't really see how all those players, if they are all so clever at lineouts, couldn't do it themselves at Test level if all that was required was excelling at Super level.
Don't get me wrong, clearly there needs to be work done in this area, and I agree mainly with you - just who they get will be interesting.

 

[Pfitzy]

It would be great is we could teach Fardy to scrummage at lock in the next couple of years.

I can't remember if it is you or someone else who keeps shaking this can, hoping money will fall out, but let me ask - for the record, you understand:

Why, for the love of porn, would we move our best blindside, who has shown he is an 80 minute player for two seasons, to lock at any point except where everyone else available fell down a flight of explosive razor wire into a fucking meat grinder?

Answer at least one paragraph or three bullet points. Preferably to make sense.

We've got locks coming through. Big, angry ones. If Caydern Neville didn't have a brain the size of a walnut he'd already BE a Wallaby instead of just cruising at the Rebels.

What we need is (are?) more locks who can call lineouts, because apparently Simmons is the only one in the country capable of doing it

That kid from the Force (Coleman) and a couple of others show real promise. We just need to get them fit and hungry, and let Fardy do what he does best.

 

[topgun]

I'd like to see Kerevi, Ala'alatoa(allan), Arnold, Coleman, Timani (as an 8), Vaea, Debreczini, Stirzacker all given some time in the gold jersey in the next few seasons. There is a surprising amount of depth in the conference at the moment that we have been lacking for a while now.

 

[cyclopath]

I can't remember if it is you or someone else who keeps shaking this can, hoping money will fall out, but let me ask - for the record, you understand:

Why, for the love of porn, would we move our best blindside, who has shown he is an 80 minute player for two seasons, to lock at any point except where everyone else available fell down a flight of explosive razor wire into a fucking meat grinder?

Answer at least one paragraph or three bullet points. Preferably to make sense.

We've got locks coming through. Big, angry ones. If Caydern Neville didn't have a brain the size of a walnut he'd already BE a Wallaby instead of just cruising at the Rebels.

What we need is (are?) more locks who can call lineouts, because apparently Simmons is the only one in the country capable of doing it

That kid from the Force (Coleman) and a couple of others show real promise. We just need to get them fit and hungry, and let Fardy do what he does best.

I'll back Cheika to know how to get them fit, angry and hungry.

 

[Viking]

I can't remember if it is you or someone else who keeps shaking this can, hoping money will fall out, but let me ask - for the record, you understand:

Why, for the love of porn, would we move our best blindside, who has shown he is an 80 minute player for two seasons, to lock at any point except where everyone else available fell down a flight of explosive razor wire into a fucking meat grinder?

Answer at least one paragraph or three bullet points. Preferably to make sense.

We've got locks coming through. Big, angry ones. If Caydern Neville didn't have a brain the size of a walnut he'd already BE a Wallaby instead of just cruising at the Rebels.

What we need is (are?) more locks who can call lineouts, because apparently Simmons is the only one in the country capable of doing it

That kid from the Force (Coleman) and a couple of others show real promise. We just need to get them fit and hungry, and let Fardy do what he does best.

1. Simmons and Mumm lack impact in general play. Playing Fardy at lock has many benefits for this reason:
2. Fardy can play the exact same role as Blindside that he does at lock, only difference being scrum. he fullfills the primary role of lock being an effective line-out worker and playing tight.
3. I don't believe we have "locks coming through". Neville , Arnold, Jones, Coleman are years away from being world class locks. Whereas players like McCalman, Higgers, McMahon already offer more impact around the park OR are just a step-or-two away.

I guess the main point is our current blindside flanker stocks potentially offer more impact in general play then either Simmons or Mumm or current up and coming locks.

I'm sick of locks being line-out specialists and being average around the park. What we need is a lock who can do both - Fardy can potentially do this.

Also, I was kind of sucked into this argument by your post, I don't think this is the be all end all idea. As Simmons is a good option, much like Slipper is a good option at prop until Sio came along and offered something more. So in Fardy's case It would just be a very handy option to have if he could play lock and it's not far from a reality, allowing possibly a better impacting back-rower to come through.

And playing all our best players on the park at one time has worked well - you know like playing Hooper and Pocock together.

I agree we need to train some-else to call line-outs.

 

[Brumby Runner]

To pinpoint areas that let us down this RWC:

1) Moore's throwing. We had 2 lineouts in the AB half in the first 40 today, and lost both. He also had several poor throws at key moments earlier in the tournament.

2) Genia's box kicking - got us a try today, cost us field position in this and too many other games

3) Tevita Kuridrani in general - this guy just didn't continue to deliver unfortunately. I'm not sure if its just that the game plan was modified and he wasn't part of it, or whether Giteau at 12 took away from the dynamic he had with To'omua/Lilo at the Brumbies and Wobs. Some great hits in contact, but too often was a weak point in defence.

4) Simmons' lineout - his work around the park has held steady, and at the scrum (though Douglas appears to have added real starch here - Reds scrum will be mean next year even if nothing else is more than timid). But where oh where is this lineout general I am promised? The throws aren't his fault. The not jumping most definitely is, because communication is key. The lack of steals from our lineout also points to a lack of "read" which I thought is something he'd bring.

5) The lack of bench use in the backs. Understanding Cheika's preference for Beale, I thought today, To'omua should have been given his shot at 12 when Giteau went down early. That was the entire reason for To'omua being there, after all, and he could have really helped straighten the attack and give a different slant to it.

6) The game plan - again with the understanding that Cheika had only 12 months and a dozen Tests to imprint his DNA on the team. But we need to have something other than "chuck it to the second channel" because against a team that can commit minimal numbers to the breakdown, its a gift. The turnover count was something like 18 to 14 their way, and the ruck turnovers would have been about even.

Anyway, things to work on for us. 2016 will be bigger and brighter.

Absolutely agree with every point made here @Pfitzy.

Moore's throwing has been too low and has allowed opposition jumpers to get up in front of ours. I was most disappointed in his lineout work.

Will Genia is playing a lot better than he has for quite a few years, but his box kicking usually turns out bad for us. Why doesn't he get the protection from the forwards that the ABs' forwards give Smith?

TK has looked out of sorts for most of this year. Early on, definitely due to injury, but like you I think he has just not had a role to play in the game plan. And despite the accolades Matt Giteau gets here, he didn't once that I recall put a player through a gap by dent of his own creative play. He mostly just trucked the ball up into the defense, and if that was the game plan then Matt To'omua would have been a far better option.

Rob Simmons was especially disappointing. He does not play with the aggression that we'd like to see in our locks and he didn't efficiently carry out the role for which he was most noted, ie lineout general. We really need to find and develop some hard men as locks. Maybe by 2019, Tom Staniforth will be in the picture. Meanwhile, I am hopeful Coleman will step up.

Cheika's/Larkham's use of To'omua has left me dumbfounded. Finished at least two, maybe more, games sitting on the bench. Just no sense to thast at all, especially given the dominant defense he brings to the game.

Yep - game plan needs to be a whole lot more adventurous. Forwards need to learn to attack in waves with short passing to supports. Backs need to be able to play with some creativeness to undo the defensive lines. My worst fear is that the way they play is largely due to Steve Larkham's influence, and if so it doesn't bode well for the Brumbies.

As you say, a lot to work on.

 

[Pfitzy]

1. Simmons and Mumm lack impact in general play. Playing Fardy at lock has many benefits for this reason:
2. Fardy can play the exact same role as Blindside that he does at lock, only difference being scrum. he fullfills the primary role of lock being an effective line-out worker and playing tight.

Question: have you ever played second row?

 

[cyclopath]

But if you have Fardy locking in scrums, he will lose some dynamism around the park in terms of doing what he does so well in the loose, simply by dint of the energy expended in scrums. I can't agree that he should move anywhere - he is just too good at 6 to fiddle with it. Locks can still do work around the park, depending on your overall team balance, but Fardy's massive upside is what he does now. Plus, the extra weight perhaps needed would stunt his dynamism too. I wouldn't hold Retallick as the minimum benchmark for a lock to do, as he is a freak, I would rather see strong defensive units, maul-wreckers and cleanout merchants. If they can steal something occasionally, bonus.
I don't think those other locks are years away - don't forget, pre-RWC most thought Douglas was a poor call by Cheika. The raw material was there with him, and it is there in some of these. I'm more optimistic that he can extract a lot more from them.

 

[wamberal]

Our locks have to be ball carriers, too.

 

[Pfitzy]

I don't think those other locks are years away - don't forget, pre-RWC most thought Douglas was a poor call by Cheika.

Along with a fuck-ton of other things. @RugbyReg 's article weaved a merry tale of where we all thought shit was about to explode on the way to Twickers. We were all chewing glass there for a while, but it worked out.

 

[cyclopath]

Our locks have to be ball carriers, too.

That too.

 

[Pfitzy]

Our locks have to be ball carriers, too.

Well it would be nice, but as long as you've got 4-5 in the pack somewhere, that would be good. You need people to cover rucks, and if the giraffes are doing the donkey work, someone else needs to step up.

Its difficult with the Pooper because then you need at least one of your locks to be a devastating contact ball carrier along with one of your props and hooker. Can Skelton do this after his injury? Not sure at this point.

I'd love if Coleman and Skelton could get themselves up a few levels. Would not want for size, skill, or ball running there. But if you're carrying a lock and the Pooper? Hmmm.

We need a traditional number 8 - big, line-bending, soft hands.

I think for this 12 month period, Cheika's plan was to get the team together that he could. And I would not be surprised to see things change significantly in terms of personnel and game plan next year.

 

[Brumby Runner]

And I meant to say that as far as the backline goes, I hope Kerevi continues to show the sort of improvement he has since coming into Super XV. He looks to be the type of centre we will need to challenge the best of defensive lines.

 

[Brumby Runner]

We need a traditional number 8 - big, line-bending, soft hands.

I think for this 12 month period, Cheika's plan was to get the team together that he could. And I would not be surprised to see things change significantly in terms of personnel and game plan next year.

Just described Ita Vaea. It will be time next year to give him a go in place of one of the current players who have difficulty getting over the gain line (we all know who they are). After Ita, I'd like to see Holloway come in also. These are the future and need to be brought into the Wallaby fold in 2016.

 

[wamberal]

I have always liked Holloway, but he is not a line bender. -- he is more the classic old school number 8, lots of skills for sure.

 

[Gnostic]

Absolutely agree with every point made here @Pfitzy.

Moore's throwing has been too low and has allowed opposition jumpers to get up in front of ours. I was most disappointed in his lineout work.

Will Genia is playing a lot better than he has for quite a few years, but his box kicking usually turns out bad for us. Why doesn't he get the protection from the forwards that the ABs' forwards give Smith?

TK has looked out of sorts for most of this year. Early on, definitely due to injury, but like you I think he has just not had a role to play in the game plan. And despite the accolades Matt Giteau gets here, he didn't once that I recall put a player through a gap by dent of his own creative play. He mostly just trucked the ball up into the defense, and if that was the game plan then Matt To'omua would have been a far better option.

Rob Simmons was especially disappointing. He does not play with the aggression that we'd like to see in our locks and he didn't efficiently carry out the role for which he was most noted, ie lineout general. We really need to find and develop some hard men as locks. Maybe by 2019, Tom Staniforth will be in the picture. Meanwhile, I am hopeful Coleman will step up.

Cheika's/Larkham's use of To'omua has left me dumbfounded. Finished at least two, maybe more, games sitting on the bench. Just no sense to thast at all, especially given the dominant defense he brings to the game.

Yep - game plan needs to be a whole lot more adventurous. Forwards need to learn to attack in waves with short passing to supports. Backs need to be able to play with some creativeness to undo the defensive lines. My worst fear is that the way they play is largely due to Steve Larkham's influence, and if so it doesn't bode well for the Brumbies.

As you say, a lot to work on.

I like all of this but it is also a bit mystifying BR because to my eye it was very similar to what the Brumbies have played under Larkham. I just don't think Larkham has earnt his stripes as a coach at any level yet. That said this year the Tahs were extremely one dimensional with no reliable kicking options in the back three and that killed them against the kick chase sides who displayed a good defence. ie Stormers and Force.

I would also be looking at the forwards coaching and rue the fact that Fischer left Australia at the same time that Mackenzie retained the underperforming Blades. The general forwards play whilst greatly improved under Chieka would have been far better with his input. I also thought that the Brumbies forwards fell away a lot this year without him.

Moving into 2016 I would really like to see dedicated coaching for kicking from hand and tee, and a lineout/forwards coach. These areas are critical to the games that Australia lost or came close to losing this year. Without addressing them I think the Wallabies will not improve on what we saw at their best this year.

In terms of player changes, I hope to see some real pace on the wings now that the easy option of AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is gone, but if Tomane or Speight want to fill those roles they have to learn how to kick and catch the high ball consistently and dominantly. I really hope that Stirzacker comes along at 9 and am really very happy that I'll never have to see a Genia box kick again in Wallaby colours.

The key loss for me is the Kepu. He has been in the best form of his career and nobody is close to him at THP as a complete package in Australia. Holmes is very good and his renaissance has been a great story but he is almost as old as I am, he will and should be number 1 THP next year but who is next in line, Toby Smith? I'm not sure I'm convinced.

Locks, well I don't care who is slected and it won't matter a jot until they get some serious coaching in the technical aspects.