The NZ Way

[RugbyReg]

Murray Kinsella, an Irish journo, is doing a series of articles (in the lead up to the IRL v NZL test in the USA) on why the NZ Rugby system is so good. Murray is an excellent journo I reckon so I think they will be a worthwhile read. Thought we should have a thread linking to the articles and discussing them (positively) particularly in relation to what may or won't work in Australia.

http://www.the42.ie/all-blacks-ireland-new-zealand-launch-3012878-Oct2016/?utm_source=shortlink

 

[RugbyReg]

Here's what I think is the next article looking at the Crusaders and Canterbury set up

https://t.co/wiUJpUDMxS

 

[RugbyReg]

Separate from the article (but related) someone put this flow chart of coach development under Robbie Deans.

 

[louie]

Thanks heaps for these Reg. Fascinating. Does anyone have any insight to how this compares to OZ super teams? and how far behind we may be?

 

[RugbyReg]

Thanks heaps for these Reg. Fascinating. Does anyone have any insight to how this compares to OZ super teams? and how far behind we may be?

I haven't had a chance to read the Crusaders one, but will as soon as I can and try to see if I can draw in comparisons to when I was at the Reds

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Good stuff, thanks Reg. One thing stuck out to me in the second article was the province vs country politics and the relative lack thereof in NZ rugby. That's certainly not the case here and will hold back the game in this country until it's addressed. I think one of the other big things is that the Kiwis have a much broader base of players going through the elite level. We seem to pick some young blokes with talent in the GPS system and that's about it. If we're to stay competitive it's got to start with fostering of the club system, rather like how cricket works here.

 

[papabear]

Call me cynical but imo it comes down to talent and culture, as opposed to some sort of special strategy or management structure.

All the top athletes are playing rugby, all the resources are focused towards rugby, most of the interest is with rugby.

Every other nation has so many other competing interests and codes.

Cricket is a good comparison as I imagine cricket doesnt have to much competition in nz in summer much like here. But as NZ has to come up against other nations with a similar cricketing culture, tbh they are pretty shit for the most part.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Exactly right Papabear.

In many ways you have to look at NZ Rugby like a monopoly industry. Their customer base has minimal competition, their recruitment base has minimal local competition and as a result, they don't lose customers and maintain the best local candidates.

Systems work better when the individuals that come through them are better. But another thing is people will happily follow structure systems when they have no alternative or they know they can easily be replaced.

In many ways that does not at all work for Australian because an ambitious coach with a little experience has a greater bargaining position due to the lack of alternatives.

It's not to say the NZ doesn't do things well, but that it also benefits from having competition for spots rather than competing for individuals and that this may not necessarily yield the same results, or be achievable in a more competitive market like Australia.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Certainly the fact that we have four football codes doesn't help, thus increasing the competition for players. Another thing that doesn't is that there are zero multi-sport players at the elite level any more. There was a time when a bloke could play footy in the winter and cricket during the summer, both at a high level. Admittedly that hasn't been the case for a few years now, but I know of quite a few young blokes who have played at underage rep level in more than one sport. Now we've got guys having to choose a sport in the mid/late teens, because the training requirements are basically all year round, even as a youngster. I can think of plenty of recent examples of this.

We actually do pretty well to be as competitive as we are with all the things going against the game here. None of that means things can't be improved though and for me the big one is to maximise the efficiency of our pathways and make sure as many people as possible can come through that club/state/pro pathway. This is why I back the NRC as the bridge that we've needed for a long time.

 

[zer0]

Call me cynical but imo it comes down to talent and culture, as opposed to some sort of special strategy or management structure.

All the top athletes are playing rugby, all the resources are focused towards rugby, most of the interest is with rugby.

Every other nation has so many other competing interests and codes.

Cricket is a good comparison as I imagine cricket doesnt have to much competition in nz in summer much like here. But as NZ has to come up against other nations with a similar cricketing culture, tbh they are pretty shit for the most part.

Cricket isn't that popular as a competitive sport in NZ. It also suffers from being not-rugby, and has hemorrhaged its share of talented players. Read and Dagg being the most notable examples.

Plus NZC is run by a bunch of lobotomised chimps.

 

[Tomikin]

Cricket isn't that popular as a competitive sport in NZ. It also suffers from being not-rugby, and has hemorrhaged its share of talented players. Read and Dagg being the most notable examples.

Plus NZC is run by a bunch of lobotomised chimps.

Brendon McClamen was a fantastic rugby player who picked cricket

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[Dan54]

Call me cynical but imo it comes down to talent and culture, as opposed to some sort of special strategy or management structure.

All the top athletes are playing rugby, all the resources are focused towards rugby, most of the interest is with rugby.

Every other nation has so many other competing interests and codes.

Cricket is a good comparison as I imagine cricket doesnt have to much competition in nz in summer much like here. But as NZ has to come up against other nations with a similar cricketing culture, tbh they are pretty shit for the most part.

Yep you right papabear, NZRU just sits there and automatically gets everyone watching and playing rugby, and no other sports are played in NZ, otherwise the kiwis would win the WC in league and stuff like that would happen, hell you would even get a NZ soccer team going to WC and not losing a match if soccer was played in NZ. I not sure if any of you realise how much work NZRU does to keep rugby the main sport, I actually compare AFL in Aus as a sport that does same kind of work. I agree with what you say about the culture etc, but I also know in NZ in the late 80s and 90s there was a real battle with league for young players in NZ, can't say what happened after as I have been here in Aus. But I know when I was involved in rugby in NZ I always felt the NZRU genuinely was trying to promote the game through all levels in NZ.

 

[Dan54]

Brendon McClamen was a fantastic rugby player who picked cricket

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Actually Brendon McCullum was also a quite good cricketer and a handy rugby player when he younger, actually kept Dan Carter out of South Island age grade teams

 

[Dismal Pillock]

 

[Strewthcobber]

Next article in the series is up with an excellent look at where the All Blacks scored their 60 tries this season.

Particularly relevant for us Wallaby fans as we gave up 18 of them this year

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-all-blacks-tries-59-2016-3056059-Nov2016/

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Look at how many from turnover ball and in the tram tracks too. The secure it and shift with pace and depth in support. Hmmm, sounds like a tactic to combat I think.

 

[Dalai Ninja]

Look at how many from turnover ball and in the tram tracks too. The secure it and shift with pace and depth in support. Hmmm, sounds like a tactic to combat I think.

Straight out of the Bob Dwyer coaching manual. It's weird how Bob's ideas are considered 'old' when they're usually obvious, and often exactly how the All Blacks play.

 

[Brumby Runner]

18/60 (30%) of all tries scored from turnover ball or kick return from their own side of halfway. This is what makes them so exciting to watch, and is the difference imo between how they play and how all other sides play in world rugby. The ABs simply don't confine themselves to attacking rugby in the opposition red zone. They will attack from all over the ground.

Surprising though that they don't have a single try scored from a lineout in their own territory. Shows the benefit perhaps of a good long kicker able to find touch over the half way line with a solid defensive line to keep them in check from first phase ball. OTH, in the case of the Wallabies, it just might reflect the inability of our main clearance kicker being able to find touch with a good ground winning kick.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Straight out of the Bob Dwyer coaching manual. It's weird how Bob's ideas are considered 'old' when they're usually obvious, and often exactly how the All Blacks play.

Indeed! One thing that Bob has always preached is a relentless adherence to executing the fundamentals of the game at the highest quality. Hard to argue with that. It's like building a house on a shaky foundation, no amount of work on the facade is going to make it stand up. The AB's are better than anyone at it.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>

This is a good way of showing a teams performance (strengths in this case) for a season in a very simple manner.