Subbies 2023!

[Denistone_Dennis]

Looking forward to Lindfield/Uni. It will be closer than people think.

Absolutely. Had one poor game to start the year and have lost one game by one point since.

 

[Bismarck12345]

Absolutely. Had one poor game to start the year and have lost one game by one point since.
I believe from reading here they were up by 13 as well and lead the entire game and missed a winning kick. Looks like they had them almost that day. The question is who will have taken the most learnings from the game. Will be a blockbuster.

 

[LRUsoldier]

Predictions for division 3.

1st Grade
Lindfield v UNSW
Newport v Epping

2nd Grade
Lindfield v UNSW
Hills v Valley

Colts
Lindfield v Newport
UNSW v Epping

3rd Grade
Epping v Hills
Lindfield v UNSW

 

[oldmate11]

Div 3 Regular Season Review

After 14 rounds of rugby it's time to break down each clubs regular season and try and judge the short term future for each club in the division

1. Beecroft (1886 Points)

Showed signs of life in the back end of 2022 indicating that with a bit more experience on the field, they could put together a strong season. Fast-forward to next year and the strength of this team was immediate, beating teams all over the park with their extremely mobile pack and a backline that could score from anywhere. Had some struggles mid-season due to mounting injuries and player availability however they look to have pretty much everyone back for finals time. Second grade and colts are strong in numbers and success this year as well. If they keep the same core for next year, they can definitely give division 2 a solid crack in 2024. 9/10

2. Knox (1412 Points)

After a dismal 2022 which had the club in crisis, the decision was made to drop to division 3 which proved to be the right choice in the end. Early signs were worrying with some poor results and a clear lack of numbers in the grade teams, however an influx of players in the first half of the year helped the club push on and stamp their authority, notably in first grade which has seen some strong performances in the back end of the year. The club is lead by their extremely strong colts contingent who are premiership favourites this year. With a good recruitment drive, they could be a solid side in division 2 should they choose to move up. 9/10

3. Sydney Harbour (1210 Points)

Unsurprisingly, they have continued their success as they seem to do every year playing much more expansive rugby than they have in previous years. They are an interesting problem, fielding one side and filling the gaps with other sides where they can. Realistically that isn't a viable solution. In my opinion, they should cut the shit and field two sides next year. They get a boatload of subs every week, what's stopping them from fielding another side with a focus on recruitment? If they manage to field two teams and run Easts 5ths as a third grade, they could and should definitely move up to division 2 with Beecroft. 8/10

4. Sydney Harlequins (1158 Points)

Built well into the year after a slow start and snuck into the last finals spot. Make no mistake, they won't be making up the numbers and the match against Knox will be one for the ages. Always have plenty of numbers, even fielding a third grade for multiple weeks which is good to see. They're moving along nicely and are locked into division 3 for next year. 7/10

5. Old Barker (926 Points)

Unfortunately a very disappointing year for them after being earmarked as potential favourites before the season began. Not really sure where it's gone wrong this year as their team looks pretty similar to the one that made finals in division 2 last year. Second grade has picked up some wins and made finals however all signs point to any early exit from them. Colts side unfortunately quite disappointing as well. They'll remain a division 3 side next year however they need to do a bit of soul searching in order to challenge the top teams again. 4/10

6. Old Ignatians (262 Points)

Very rough year for the iggies boys. Signs weren't great after a nightmare 2022 season but division 3 gave them a clean slate to rebuild the club into the powerhouse of previous years. Unfortunately, things have gone from bad to worse. Numbers have fallen off a cliff throughout the year and are being held together by some brave lads and club legends. Not sure where they go from here. If they can't get a colts program together I think a drop to division 4 might be on the way for them next year. Hopefully things will improve but it doesn't look good. 2/10

7. Manly Savers (-10 Points)

-10 says all you need to know. Had great signs at the end of 2022 and deserved to move up to division 3 on the back of that but this year they had dire numbers from the start. Fought hard to be competitive but were always up against it. Division 5 awaits for them most likely, hopefully they turn it around there. 0/10

 

[Denistone_Dennis]

Div 2 Regular Season Review

1. Lindfield (2626 points)

Club champions by a squillion points, after a few years on the improve it has all fallen into place for Lindfield in 2023. Unbeaten in 1s, 2s and Colts with a total of 7 losses across the men’s teams, they are worthy club champions and will no doubt be in early preparations for the jump to Division 1 already. Built on strong set piece and making few errors, they should see themselves walking away with 3 premierships on grand final day, if not 4. If the group stays together they’ll more than make up the numbers in Kentwell next year. 10/10.

2. UNSW (2126 points)

UNSW have had a very good year by normal standards, but overshadowed by Lindfield’s complete dominance. There’s been a real excitement factor in how they play, particularly in 1st grade. Despite some players moving on and some long-term injuries, others have stepped up to the plate, even through the uni break periods they’ve managed pretty well. Will likely fall short at the business end in 2s, 3s and colts but can give Lindfield a real shake in 1st grade if they are on. Early tip for the 2024 Div 2 club championship. 9/10.

3. Hills (1406 points)

Huge gap between the top 2 and the rest in Div 2 shown by Hills sitting in 3rd. Have a reigning champion 3rd grade team who are one of the favorites to do the job again, and a 2s side who can beat up everyone below them but can’t challenge UNSW and Lindfield. After that, its been an average year for the men from Yattenden. Their 1st grade and colts sides were better than their positions but regularly blew it against worse opposition. Seems like there’s a lot of players down the grades who could play 1s but would rather bully down the grades and don't back up. Could go either way in 2024. 6/10.

4. Newport (1274 points)

Decimated in 2023, but somehow have jagged their way into finals in 1st grade, and best of the rest in a colts competition dominated in Lindfield. Struggled for numbers in 2023, regularly fielding just 2 grades and colts. Some real hard work to be done in the off-season to ensure they have numbers in 2024, however a production line from their U/18s should help. Colts should get to the big dance, whilst 1st grade should get past Epping, but will struggle against either of the top 2 in the prelim. If they can’t get their numbers back from Europe, will be a real force in 2024. 5/10.

5. Epping (1148 points)

While a 5th place finish seems ordinary, should be really proud of the way we’ve gone this year after a hugely disrupted 2022. Finals in 1s, 3s and colts suggest we belong in this division. Training numbers for us are a big issue, but if we get that right we should be more competitive in 2024. 1s and colts have their work cut out for them, but hopefully we can take the trophy back to Somerville in 3rd grade at least, likely to be some derby clashes against Hills over the next few weeks. 6/10.

6. Briars (700 points)

Looked really promising at different stages of the season, but just not with the polish to get it done when it mattered. They have a good core of guys, particularly in the forward packs, but need to try to get some top-end talent to push them up, especially in attack. Will need to seriously think about whether going ahead in Div 2 in 2024 is the right thing for them. 4/10.

7. Hawkesbury Valley (622 points)

Tough year for the boys from Windsor. Had a lot of players move on from 1st grade after 2022 and it showed in the results. 2s making finals and colts being in the hunt until the last round shows signs of life, but look to be ageing across the club. Might need to look at heading down and consolidating or risk being decimated in 2024. 3/10.

 

[BundyBear]

Div 2 Regular Season Review

1. Lindfield (2626 points)

Club champions by a squillion points, after a few years on the improve it has all fallen into place for Lindfield in 2023. Unbeaten in 1s, 2s and Colts with a total of 7 losses across the men’s teams, they are worthy club champions and will no doubt be in early preparations for the jump to Division 1 already. Built on strong set piece and making few errors, they should see themselves walking away with 3 premierships on grand final day, if not 4. If the group stays together they’ll more than make up the numbers in Kentwell next year. 10/10.

2. UNSW (2126 points)

UNSW have had a very good year by normal standards, but overshadowed by Lindfield’s complete dominance. There’s been a real excitement factor in how they play, particularly in 1st grade. Despite some players moving on and some long-term injuries, others have stepped up to the plate, even through the uni break periods they’ve managed pretty well. Will likely fall short at the business end in 2s, 3s and colts but can give Lindfield a real shake in 1st grade if they are on. Early tip for the 2024 Div 2 club championship. 9/10.

3. Hills (1406 points)

Huge gap between the top 2 and the rest in Div 2 shown by Hills sitting in 3rd. Have a reigning champion 3rd grade team who are one of the favorites to do the job again, and a 2s side who can beat up everyone below them but can’t challenge UNSW and Lindfield. After that, its been an average year for the men from Yattenden. Their 1st grade and colts sides were better than their positions but regularly blew it against worse opposition. Seems like there’s a lot of players down the grades who could play 1s but would rather bully down the grades and don't back up. Could go either way in 2024. 6/10.

4. Newport (1274 points)

Decimated in 2023, but somehow have jagged their way into finals in 1st grade, and best of the rest in a colts competition dominated in Lindfield. Struggled for numbers in 2023, regularly fielding just 2 grades and colts. Some real hard work to be done in the off-season to ensure they have numbers in 2024, however a production line from their U/18s should help. Colts should get to the big dance, whilst 1st grade should get past Epping, but will struggle against either of the top 2 in the prelim. If they can’t get their numbers back from Europe, will be a real force in 2024. 5/10.

5. Epping (1148 points)

While a 5th place finish seems ordinary, should be really proud of the way we’ve gone this year after a hugely disrupted 2022. Finals in 1s, 3s and colts suggest we belong in this division. Training numbers for us are a big issue, but if we get that right we should be more competitive in 2024. 1s and colts have their work cut out for them, but hopefully we can take the trophy back to Somerville in 3rd grade at least, likely to be some derby clashes against Hills over the next few weeks. 6/10.

6. Briars (700 points)

Looked really promising at different stages of the season, but just not with the polish to get it done when it mattered. They have a good core of guys, particularly in the forward packs, but need to try to get some top-end talent to push them up, especially in attack. Will need to seriously think about whether going ahead in Div 2 in 2024 is the right thing for them. 4/10.

7. Hawkesbury Valley (622 points)

Tough year for the boys from Windsor. Had a lot of players move on from 1st grade after 2022 and it showed in the results. 2s making finals and colts being in the hunt until the last round shows signs of life, but look to be ageing across the club. Might need to look at heading down and consolidating or risk being decimated in 2024. 3/10.

Why is there such a big gap in division 2 between the top few and the rest. Division 2 was famous for always a tightly contested competition, where any side could beat anyone on its day.

 

[Pfitzy]

Why is there such a big gap in division 2 between the top few and the rest. Division 2 was famous for always a tightly contested competition, where any side could beat anyone on its day.

Looking just at First Grade:

Lindfield beat everyone
UNSW only lost to Lindfield (x2)

That means everyone else lost to Lindfield twice and UNSW twice.

Everyone in positions 2-7 started took games off each other at different points, so there was no clear third or fourth dominant first grade side.

As an example, Newport lost to Briars and Epping but also beat them and Hills x 2, HV x 2

 

[Eastcoast]

Div 1 Round 13 Preview

Petersham - Hunters Hill - Hoping Petersham have put the cue in the rack for the year, they have some strike across the park however I feel we will be too strong. HH looking to finish the season well and roll into the finals. Should secure a finals berth this week but definitely keen to finish 1st. HH by 13

Forest - Mosman - Mosman fighting to stay in Div 1 by the sounds of this forum, although I cant see a powerhouse like them playing in Div 2. Either way, I think they go to Melwood and get the chocolates. Hopefully the crowd and Bulldog get loud for the last home game for 2023. Mosman by 10

Colleagues - Blue Mountains - Game of the day. Dont mind the finals series for Div 2 and 3. Dont mind the last round of Shute. If you want a cracker, get down to Woollahra. Colleagues to throw everything at this game with the bye leading into the finals series. I can see Blueys being very physical and leading for 75 minutes of this game. Colleagues to come home strong and win it late to lock up the finals spot. Colleagues by 1

St Pats - Drummoyne. Much like Forest, last game at home in a disappointing season for Pats 1's. Been close in pretty much every game. Again, I think St Pats stay close all game, although with more to play for, for the dirty reds, I think they stay ahead the whole game. This will lead to a great final round to determine to top 4. Drummoyne by 4

 

[Pfitzy]

Righto, last round in Div 4, let's have a crack:

Saints v Renegades - must-win for us to sneak into a top 6 spot. Saints were good value against Redfield, holding the lead just after half time, so aren't to be taken lightly. Close game I reckon and increasing showers might make it interesting.

Raptors v Rockdale - will really depend how Rockdale travel. Raptors will be weighing up how much they put into this game, given their 2s are already in.

Chatswood v Wakehurst - Chatswood will have all their energies focused on 2nd Grade at this point, and Wakehurst pushed Merrylands last week.

Merrylands v Mac Uni - forgone conclusion you'd think. If the Wolves can win with a bonus point, and Irish lose with no BP, Merrylands will have the minor premiership on PD.

Redfield v Irish - match of the round - perhaps match of the day. Out at the College Northern Saints, Irish will have one eye on a top 2 spot for their 2nd Grade, and want a win to secure the minor premiership, though even a single point is enough.

 

[Pfitzy]

DIVISION 4 FINALS WEEK 1 @ Mittagar Reserve (Raptors' Home Ground)

If my predictions are correct - and they often aren't - we will see the following:

McLean Cup has Irish and Merrylands with the week off
Grose Cup has Merrylands and Rockdale with the week off

Cup	Kick-Off	Field #1 QFA	Field #2 QFB
McLean Cup First Grade	3.15pm	Rockdale v Wakehurst	Redfield v Renegades
Grose Cup Second Grade	1.45pm	Redfield v Chatswood	Irish v Raptors

 

[Heavyd]

Div 1 Round 13 Preview

Petersham - Hunters Hill - Hoping Petersham have put the cue in the rack for the year, they have some strike across the park however I feel we will be too strong. HH looking to finish the season well and roll into the finals. Should secure a finals berth this week but definitely keen to finish 1st. HH by 13

Forest - Mosman - Mosman fighting to stay in Div 1 by the sounds of this forum, although I cant see a powerhouse like them playing in Div 2. Either way, I think they go to Melwood and get the chocolates. Hopefully the crowd and Bulldog get loud for the last home game for 2023. Mosman by 10

Colleagues - Blue Mountains - Game of the day. Dont mind the finals series for Div 2 and 3. Dont mind the last round of Shute. If you want a cracker, get down to Woollahra. Colleagues to throw everything at this game with the bye leading into the finals series. I can see Blueys being very physical and leading for 75 minutes of this game. Colleagues to come home strong and win it late to lock up the finals spot. Colleagues by 1

St Pats - Drummoyne. Much like Forest, last game at home in a disappointing season for Pats 1's. Been close in pretty much every game. Again, I think St Pats stay close all game, although with more to play for, for the dirty reds, I think they stay ahead the whole game. This will lead to a great final round to determine to top 4. Drummoyne by 4

Sounds like its a welcome Forest and Petersham to Div 2.

 

[footy_footy]

Sounds like its a welcome Forest and Petersham to Div 2.

An interesting situation looking to 2024. Say it is Petersham and Forest (or one of the the other relegation contenders St Pat's or Mosman) that join Div 2 in 2024 how will the other Div 2 clubs go?

None of the four Div 1 clubs mentioned are "weak" but relative to the heavy hitters in Div 1 they are at the bottom of the Club Championship. These aren't clubs like Knox or Balmain who completely capitulated by the time relegation occurred. They all have at least 4 grades and a Colts and all of them, with the exception of Petersham, will have grades that are genuine premiership threats come finals. If these Clubs are relegated, they will no doubt be at the top end of Div 2.

Presuming Lindfield are promoted, which is more than justified, how will the injection of two strong clubs into Div 2 affect competitiveness? I tend to think that UNSW and Newport would be up to the task. Hills often have the numbers but don't always have the quality whilst Epping always put up a fight they are consistently inconsistent (and who knows how long the Hunters Hill Colts arrangement will last!?).

Where things could get tricky is the clubs at the lower end of Div 2 particularly if 8 clubs is the magic number. Briars and HV have struggled this year and wouldn't be up to it. Beecroft have had a good year in Div 3 but it could be a tricky situation if they come up against Petersham or Forest in Round 1. It's one thing to get a few wins up against Barker Old Boys but a whole other story playing Forest at Melwood!

As an aside, I'd be very curious to see the outcome of a Forest/Petersham/St Pat's/Mosman v Lindfield match up across the grades to see where Lindfield genuinely stand.

 

[Pfitzy]

I'm not sure HV would want to stick around in Div 2 at this point short of a big off season recruitment drive. Beecroft might be able to go up?

Conceivably Div 2 sticks at 3 Grades + Colts and you might end up with:

1 Briars
2 Beecroft
3 Epping
4 Forest
5 Hills
6 Newport
7 Petersham
8 UNSW

Div 3 then becomes a real problem unless a couple of clubs come up from Div 4, because Savers can't stay there on current form:

1 Hawkesbury Valley
2 Knox
3 ?Merrylands? - need Colts
4 Old Barker
5 Old Ignatians - tho things look troubled at Ryde...
6 ?Rockdale? - need Colts
7 Sydney Harbour - with the obvious issues in terms of the Easts partnership
8 Sydney Harlequins

Third Div might have to stick at 7 clubs for the time being. I'd love to stick my hand up but too many uncertainties around 2024 right now.

 

[HogansHeros]

I'm not sure HV would want to stick around in Div 2 at this point short of a big off season recruitment drive. Beecroft might be able to go up?

Conceivably Div 2 sticks at 3 Grades + Colts and you might end up with:

1 Briars
2 Beecroft
3 Epping
4 Forest
5 Hills
6 Newport
7 Petersham
8 UNSW

Div 3 then becomes a real problem unless a couple of clubs come up from Div 4, because Savers can't stay there on current form:

1 Hawkesbury Valley
2 Knox
3 ?Merrylands? - need Colts
4 Old Barker
5 Old Ignatians - tho things look troubled at Ryde...
6 ?Rockdale? - need Colts
7 Sydney Harbour - with the obvious issues in terms of the Easts partnership
8 Sydney Harlequins

Third Div might have to stick at 7 clubs for the time being. I'd love to stick my hand up but too many uncertainties around 2024 right now.

Although the quality of footy from Div 2 to Div 3 hasnt looked that different bar Lindfield, UNSW maybe and some performances early by Newport, I cant see any of the div 3 clubs doing well in Div 2. Because, numbers.

 

[Eastcoast]

An interesting situation looking to 2024. Say it is Petersham and Forest (or one of the the other relegation contenders St Pat's or Mosman) that join Div 2 in 2024 how will the other Div 2 clubs go?

None of the four Div 1 clubs mentioned are "weak" but relative to the heavy hitters in Div 1 they are at the bottom of the Club Championship. These aren't clubs like Knox or Balmain who completely capitulated by the time relegation occurred. They all have at least 4 grades and a Colts and all of them, with the exception of Petersham, will have grades that are genuine premiership threats come finals. If these Clubs are relegated, they will no doubt be at the top end of Div 2.

Presuming Lindfield are promoted, which is more than justified, how will the injection of two strong clubs into Div 2 affect competitiveness? I tend to think that UNSW and Newport would be up to the task. Hills often have the numbers but don't always have the quality whilst Epping always put up a fight they are consistently inconsistent (and who knows how long the Hunters Hill Colts arrangement will last!?).

Where things could get tricky is the clubs at the lower end of Div 2 particularly if 8 clubs is the magic number. Briars and HV have struggled this year and wouldn't be up to it. Beecroft have had a good year in Div 3 but it could be a tricky situation if they come up against Petersham or Forest in Round 1. It's one thing to get a few wins up against Barker Old Boys but a whole other story playing Forest at Melwood!

As an aside, I'd be very curious to see the outcome of a Forest/Petersham/St Pat's/Mosman v Lindfield match up across the grades to see where Lindfield genuinely stand.

My thoughts based of what I have watched live in Div 1, The one game at Boronia I watched of Div 2 and then some Cluch games of Div 2. St Pats or Forest would win Div 2 this year. Their squad would be stronger than Lindfields in 1's. Lindfield have depth so their lower grades may split results. A St Pats Colts Vs Lindfield Colts would be a cracker.

Lindfield putting 60+ on some teams in Div 2. The two teams that go down will do something similar unfortunately.

 

[TheBigArvo]

My thoughts based of what I have watched live in Div 1, The one game at Boronia I watched of Div 2 and then some Cluch games of Div 2. St Pats or Forest would win Div 2 this year. Their squad would be stronger than Lindfields in 1's. Lindfield have depth so their lower grades may split results. A St Pats Colts Vs Lindfield Colts would be a cracker.

Lindfield putting 60+ on some teams in Div 2. The two teams that go down will do something similar unfortunately.

Well these clubs shouldn’t be afraid of going down then. Have a great year, hammer some teams and go back up. Look at what Hunters Hill
Have done since being dropped a few years ago. It can do wonders to your club.
It’s ensuring we have enough numbers in the middle of the division’s to run some competitive comps so these clubs aren’t getting belted or belting the smaller clubs.
Maybe you run a bigger Div 1 and a merged Div 2/3. Though this didn’t work last year with some clubs suffering from it.

 

[Pfitzy]

Maybe you run a bigger Div 1 and a merged Div 2/3. Though this didn’t work last year with some clubs suffering from it.

Got to get back to 8x8x8 ASAP in order to keep Club Championship based on full home & away.

 

[Heavyd]

Everyone needs to take a chill pill about the outrage of having...gulp....a few current DIV 1 clubs drop a DIV. If its Forest, St Pats, Mosman or Petersham headed to DIV 2 I can assure you they wont have it all their own way. They might even win a comp or two which will make a nice change for them. Having 2 competitive sides come into Div 2 is a must for the overall survival of subbies. UNSW, Newport, Hills and Beecroft would be licking their lips of renewing some old historical riviaries. Newport vs Forest rivalry is like Rats vs Marlins but by a factor of 50.

In terms of Lindfield, I would suggest caution as to expectations in DIv 1. No doubt their lower grades have proven over many years they can mix it with the top teams but given the quality of DIv 2 Barraclough this year its difficult to get a read on how good their 1sts are. I think the next 3 weeks will be very interesting.

 

[Never Was Been]

Everyone needs to take a chill pill about the outrage of having...gulp....a few current DIV 1 clubs drop a DIV. If its Forest, St Pats, Mosman or Petersham headed to DIV 2 I can assure you they wont have it all their own way. They might even win a comp or two which will make a nice change for them. Having 2 competitive sides come into Div 2 is a must for the overall survival of subbies. UNSW, Newport, Hills and Beecroft would be licking their lips of renewing some old historical riviaries. Newport vs Forest rivalry is like Rats vs Marlins but by a factor of 50.

In terms of Lindfield, I would suggest caution as to expectations in DIv 1. No doubt their lower grades have proven over many years they can mix it with the top teams but given the quality of DIv 2 Barraclough this year its difficult to get a read on how good their 1sts are. I think the next 3 weeks will be very interesting.

I think I've watched enough 1st Division and 2nd Division games including Lindfield this year to suggest they would have certainly held their own in 1st Division. 2nd Division may have been weaker than previous years, to that we can all agree, but that's not to say they couldn't climb to another level when tested. Anyways, next season is next season, for now I'm looking forward to some juicy finals starting tomorrow

 

[Heure]

Everyone needs to take a chill pill about the outrage of having...gulp....a few current DIV 1 clubs drop a DIV. If its Forest, St Pats, Mosman or Petersham headed to DIV 2 I can assure you they wont have it all their own way. They might even win a comp or two which will make a nice change for them. Having 2 competitive sides come into Div 2 is a must for the overall survival of subbies. UNSW, Newport, Hills and Beecroft would be licking their lips of renewing some old historical riviaries. Newport vs Forest rivalry is like Rats vs Marlins but by a factor of 50.

In terms of Lindfield, I would suggest caution as to expectations in DIv 1. No doubt their lower grades have proven over many years they can mix it with the top teams but given the quality of DIv 2 Barraclough this year its difficult to get a read on how good their 1sts are. I think the next 3 weeks will be very interesting.

Hey heavy diddies thought you’d still be upset about the women’s final being played in Daceyville?