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Stats query

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Mank

Mank

Ted Thorn (20)
I'm of the opinion that certain players get an undue hard time from supporters. I'd be very interested in seeing player stats for the this first 3N game. Is there anywhere these are available? I see some people on this site quote stats from time to time.
 
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FairWeatherAussie

Ted Fahey (11)
Is Rocky one of those? I really enjoy when stats are thrown up on this site against conventional wisdom. The Tom Carter one was a classic. Stats will only ever tell half of the picture, but they can be very useful as objective evidence for or against a subjective position.
 
vidiot

vidiot

John Solomon (38)
The problem with Rocky was the complete lack of stats. Unless you mean minutes unplayed, and maybe coaches undermined.

He did have a great game across the park last night. Weird game though - we'll learn more in two weeks.
 
liquor box

liquor box

Peter Sullivan (51)
I think the positive from last night was that Deans took Rocky off and replaced him. I dont think he is capable of playing at his best for a whole game. I think he has paced himself in the past to ensure he is able to play a whole game, if he knows he is only getting 50-60 minutes then he can put in more effort as he will not need to play for a long time.

The only issue with this is should a captain come off the field? Waugh seemed to do this a lot for the Tahs
 
barbarian

barbarian

Phil Kearns (64)
Staff member
Mank said:
I'm of the opinion that certain players get an undue hard time from supporters. I'd be very interested in seeing player stats for the this first 3N game. Is there anywhere these are available? I see some people on this site quote stats from time to time.
Click to expand...

I use the ones from Rugbyheaven. Last night's stats are up but not complete- stuff like rucks hit, missed tackles aren't done.

http://livescores.smh.com.au/matches/rugby/match10593.html
 
T

TheNextBigThing

Guest
Fox sports fantasy numbers are also useful. Harder to sort than the SMH stats, as they're organized by player rather than team, but way more comprehensive.
 
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RuckinGoodStats

Guest
Mank said:
I'm of the opinion that certain players get an undue hard time from supporters. I'd be very interested in seeing player stats for the this first 3N game. Is there anywhere these are available? I see some people on this site quote stats from time to time.
Click to expand...

You also might want to check out www.scrum.com but you have to search the game. I also recommend looking at the others mentioned here as a comparision. You will get different results for the same player. Just a caution. That's why I stick to team stuff, less subjective.
 
Mank

Mank

Ted Thorn (20)
RuckinGoodStats said:
You also might want to check out www.scrum.com but you have to search the game. I also recommend looking at the others mentioned here as a comparision. You will get different results for the same player. Just a caution. That's why I stick to team stuff, less subjective.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've noted the differences between sites. I think if I want to do this correctly I'll have to make a video clip showing a player's involvements myself. The player I was thinking of is John Smit. I've rewatched the game now and he is nowhere near as bad as people make out. He is not a dynamic hooker, but his work rate is higher than several other forwards, yet these other forwards are not called "slow fat lumbering oafs". It's why I think bias always clouds a person's view, I know it does cloud mine sometimes. Once there are enough loud voices complaining about a player everything becomes murky and it becomes difficult to view his play subjectively.

Just a few quick examples, stuff I've seen mentioned elsewhere.

1) OST 06:40. Smit carries the ball, takes the very obvious point of contact (as unfortunately does every South African forward), but his support (#3 and #5) are ineffective at cleaning out and he has to release, turnover, Cooper steps inside one, cover defense can't get there, try the other end. Smit gets the blame but it was not his mistake.

2) OST 09:38. Genia breaks blind, #3 (Kruger I think) is inside but too slow to react. Smit must take the outside man but Kruger can't even get to Genia, breaks, try. Smit gets the blame. To be fair, perhaps Smit could have come in on Genia forcing the offload and taking one person out the equation, but really the defensive structure was wrong, why two tight forwards defending such a large blindside? Not Smit's fault, but he gets the blame, pretty sure some sites would count it as his missed tackle.

3) OST 13:20. Smit does miss a tackle he should have made. Slips off. However, no-one mentions the three men (#6, #8, #4) who also slipped the tackle on the same player seconds before.
 
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RuckinGoodStats

Guest
Mank

Good stuff and you would have noticed how much time it takes for that. Commentators say things about a player in a generic way as who is going to counter them. They also make stuff up about injuries, often quote the only ligament for that part of the body they know. I love it when they mention PCL in the knee and how long the player will be out.

To give you an idea the Verusco guys who supply ruggastats will spend 40 hours coding a game. They give it to 8 guys who do 10 minutes each so they can get it to NZRU by Monday. That impressive but requires a big crew and a big cost. So a balance is needed and focusing on a couple of key players at points and time helps. It just doesn't stop the commentators.

Coding will be replayed by live GPS and measuring position on field where other are in relation to the ball.
 
ACT Crusader

ACT Crusader

Jim Lenehan (48)
Mank - no stat sheet will ever replace watching the game again and just concentrating on a player. Like our resident stats guru says, it's very time confusing. I did it a couple of months back when there was a debate going on after a Tahs game about TPN's workrate. There were some saying "he was massive", some said "he was stuffed and spent most the game on the wing", so I went through and watched the game and wrote down everything he did and it's a refreshing exercise if you've never done before. BTW my conclusion was that he did spend a heap of time standing and doing things on the wing. He got knocked around a bit, put in a few big hits etc.

The thing is, that often our view is skewed by only a couple of plays (for good or bad). What I love about rugby is that it's a team game and things IMo should be viewed more in the team perspective rather than an individual. But that's just me.
 
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What2040

Guest
only reliable stats are those taken by the team stat men - and I don't think they are available
 
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