Something wrong , Kiwis?

[PaarlBok]

Many punters say S14 rugby orm counts for nothing when the internationals starts and probably have stats to prove that. Myself however dont totally agree but I am getting worried about the state of the NZ franchises at this very moment. I know I should be glad but obvious there is something wrong and not a good sign going into next years WC.

OK I know its still a bit early days in the season but its not about the teams thats looking down the barrel, usually this time in the past , our lot struggle to keep up with their teams, its more about not reacting well to teams with good old SA structured gameplan that Jake White invented , Snor detailing and now our SA teams adabting to it.

I do not watch all the games but I surely watch the Stormers matches. Pretty much the same one as the Bokke build around a good lineout, parity in the scrum, dominating the breakdowns and solid defense, in fact taking the attack back in his tracks, and having a 9 and/or 10 that can dominate with the boot or know when to attack and when to defend. The Bulls do the same thing with bit more attack and a bit less defense.

This gameplan trigger the helter shelter game the NZ teams like the Canes, Chiefs and Blues plays. They seem to loose their pasience and do stupid things like wild passing, give penalties away and just play back foot rugby all the time. It feel like we get them in a deadly grip and dont leave till its over.

Anyway I dont know if its their nature or just a cycle they are in but they sure dont lead the way like they did for so many a year.

Your thoughts?

 

[Scarfman]

Your thoughts?

Fuck 'em!

 

[gone]

I do not watch all the games but I surely watch the Stormers matches. Pretty much the same one as the Bokke build around a good lineout, parity in the scrum, dominating the breakdowns and solid defense, in fact taking the attack back in his tracks, and having a 9 and/or 10 that can dominate with the boot or know when to attack and when to defend. The Bulls do the same thing with bit more attack and a bit less defense.

This gameplan trigger the helter shelter game the NZ teams like the Canes, Chiefs and Blues plays. They seem to loose their pasience and do stupid things like wild passing, give penalties away and just play back foot rugby all the time. It feel like we get them in a deadly grip and dont leave till its over.

Your thoughts?

The Crusaders seem to be going pretty well and thats without DC and Richie playing that well. They certainly don't fit your helter skelter stereotype and very rarely lose patience.

 

[PaarlBok]

Your thoughts?

Fuck 'em!

Agge nee , Doc, dont be that gruel. :nta:

The other thing that look pretty good from a SA perspective is that we have a good core of experiense Bokke already pretty much settled one. Now with the Stomers suddenly start pushing the Brutes and Sharks for top SA honours , there are a lot of younger players settling at the S14 structure ladder. We obvious have the qouta politics, downing us a bit, but nonetheless like Doc Craven use to qoute when SA have strong WP & NTvl teams , you'll get a strong Bok team.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

We're dumb, plain and simple.

The talent isn't there as much as it has been in recent past too - I think it's the side effect of the player drain to Europe, too many newbies are being played alongside other newbies, not enough experience to guide the young fella's into the environment. Players like Fruean, Cruden, Vito should be making a real mark this year, but we're only seeing it in fits 'n spurts.

Either that, or like everything else, rugby is a cycle and we're on a down cycle at the moment. SA are on the up and so are the Wobb's. Gotta remember that over the last 3-4 years most were saying the Boks were one fly half away from an awesome team & the Wobb's one front row. Well, look what's happened.

 

[PaarlBok]

The Crusaders seem to be going pretty well and thats without DC and Richie playing that well. They certainly don't fit your helter skelter stereotype and very rarely lose patience.

True but they still have to be tested by the Stormers and Bulls at home.

They always have the Saders but in the past either the Chiefs/Blues/Chiefs sort of push very hard at this time of the proceedings for that semi spot. Those three have been done by the Stormers (only the Chiefs game this weekend) and Bulls.

The Clan has always been shite.

 

[PaarlBok]

We're dumb, plain and simple.

The talent isn't there as much as it has been in recent past too - I think it's the side effect of the player drain to Europe, too many newbies are being played alongside other newbies, not enough experience to guide the young fella's into the environment. Players like Fruean, Cruden, Vito should be making a real mark this year, but we're only seeing it in fits 'n spurts.

Either that, or like everything else, rugby is a cycle and we're on a down cycle at the moment. SA are on the up and so are the Wobb's. Gotta remember that over the last 3-4 years most were saying the Boks were one fly half away from an awesome team & the Wobb's one front row. Well, look what's happened.

Thanks for your response MR, appreciating it. :thumb

Dunno about that player drain, we and Aus have the same problem.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Still not prepared to concede the 3N just yet though. Looking at the first 15's from each country, I don't think we're lacking too much.

 

[PaarlBok]

For sure , never heard of a weak All Black team in the past.

Problem is the Cartell will have to find a way to combat the Bok gameplan pretty quick. His S14 lot havent find one at the lower level.

I'd say you have tight 5 depth problems and still have to find a lineout lock, maybe Chris Jack?

 

[Gagger]

Interesting points though Paarl, had started to dare to dream the same way.

My big Question mark revolves around McCaw. Is he 100%? Will he make the RWC? Is playing at 6 an admission all's not well?

 

[Scotty]

ABs probably won't be favourites next year. They will probably therefore win it.

 

[PaarlBok]

My big Question mark revolves around McCaw. Is he 100%? Will he make the RWC? Is playing at 6 an admission all's not well?

McAwe will find it like Brussouw a bit more difficult with the new rulings. He havent played much but the way I figure all this out and sorry if I am a bit Stormers biased here, your Francois Louw & Schalk Burger types seems to blossom. They not really a opensider but do combine it well with tackling (fuck Louw got a bus full hand off from the Blues midfielder) ball carrier, breakdowns, mauling duties. I'd say your flankers that can play 6 and 7 is better suited these days. Its a bit like play the ref well and something Richie is pretty much good at.

 

[Blue]

Provided the AB coaches don't have brain farts they will field an awesome 22 in the 3N. Make no mistake.

McAwe is getting better and better and will probably play a game in the first 3N tests that shuts up all those who critisize him. We have these questions every year and time and time again he delivers.

The issue for the AB's is how they will deal with thos positions that don't have players who pick themselves on current form.

The questionable positions in my book are:

3. Tialata is very inconsistent and Afoa seems to get injured a lot. The Franks brothers are inexperienced and both struggled against Robinson.
5. With Chris Jack back this could change provided he performs consistently. Boric hasnlt been flash and Ross has disappeared altogether.
12. Nonu's brain explodes too much.
15. Mils has been poor - will the selectors have the balls to pick Dagg?

They have the players, there is no doubt.

 

[PaarlBok]

The first two Bokke vs Blacks tests will be deciders. If the Bokke puts them away, they'll be in trouble.

 

[Pfitzy]

Yeah I think its just a question of some of the younger guys in Kiwiland not knowing when to zig or zag. Their overall team will still be competitive.

 

[Gagger]

McAwe is getting better and better and will probably play a game in the first 3N tests that shuts up all those who critisize him. We have these questions every year and time and time again he delivers.

Hmmm, I'm starting to see more strapping than man (especially around the knees), it's becoming Larkhamesque. He's having sabbaticals after breaks, and he's now the regular starting 6 for the 'Saders, not sivun.

He's still class, but I do wonder if he's not looking the downslope in the face. Other guys his vintage are retiring (he's the same age as G. Smith)

 

[disco]

It's funny that you started this thread Paarlbok, because last night when I was watching Extra Time (foxsports super 14 show) I was thinking of a super 14 all star pack & I couldn't think of 1 Kiwi I would start in my 8.

Here is my All star super 14 pack

1. Benn Robinson
2. Bismarc Du Plessis
3. Ben Alexander
4. Bekker
5. Matfield
6. Elsom
7. Hodgson
8. Spies

I Know that Alexander has been playing loosehead but there just isn't any tightheads that have stood out.

Hooker was a tough one but I just think Bismarc is a freak.

 

[PaarlBok]

Schalk Burger should be there, he is playing his best rugby at this very moment. Look like the captain thing work well with him. :

 

[Scorz]

I have a few explanations for McCaw at 6.

1. The new laws dictate that McCaw is more suited to being second man to the tackle, so he has switched to the 6 jersey. Unlikely...
2. NZ don't have a back up 7. Whitelock is seen as a possible solution, so Richie is playing 6. More likely.
3. Reid is an 8 or 6, Waldrom is an 8, Whitelock is a 7, and McCaw can play all three. Waldrom misses out because he is not going to be an AB, whereas the others will or might be. Probably even more likely.

The stupidity is the experimentation and adaptation coming into effect under the new laws IMO, you can't hit on the right way to play every time they flip the switch.

 

[Scorz]

The first two Bokke vs Blacks tests will be deciders. If the Bokke puts them away, they'll be in trouble.

And if the AB's put the Bok's on their arses?