Shute Shield 2013

[Hugh Jarse]

Why stop there lily?

Imagine if the Wobs from Manly and Uni were also released to play this match?

 

[lily]

It's hard to detect sarcasm on this, so not quite sure if your response is a piss take. The Rebels dont play again till the 25th against a Lions side who will be formidable. Most of these guys wouldn't have played a game for weeks. I would have thought that keeping them playing would have been in the best interest of the players. Anyway I'm usually wrong, just ask my wife and children.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

no piss take lily. Just dreaming about what could be in Shute Shield games.

If all the Wobs aren't released, then Dingo should allow those outside the starting 23 to play club footy.

 

[Done that]

Great idea Gibbo.

This may be something that all clubs could look at.
For example one round a season. Say on the back to Parramatta day , or back to Randwick day etc

With a specific date , The game would be able to be scheduled at the start of the Shute Shield season , this would enable plenty of notice for the earlier grades to have start times amended.

Also 1st grade colts would also have plenty of notice for the scheduled venue Which would have the home side playing at home, instead of away on that day.

This would be good exposure for the colts while also benefiting them to play in front of a larger crowd and being a part of the day with the grade teams

Being held on the back to Parra or Noths etc day..You would have the old boys , grade games and 1st grade colts at the one oval.

All with one thing in common. Club Pride

This is not a new initiative , & has been used by several clubs for a few years , irregularly.
What usually happens is that lower grades & lower grade colts play on an adjacent oval simultaneously with the main oval , finishing before the main game.
In this arrangement it requires a club to have a second playing field close by.

 

[The Galah]

no piss take lily. Just dreaming about what could be in Shute Shield games.

If all the Wobs aren't released, then Dingo should allow those outside the starting 23 to play club footy.

Indeed it is a farce . Mr Pulver are you listening or just paying lip service during your attendances at Shute Shield games?

On the upside guys at least the colts/u20's at the Worlds will be back sooner than expected !

 

[Blackers13]

Indeed it is a farce . Mr Pulver are you listening or just paying lip service during your attendances at Shute Shield games?

On the upside guys at least the colts/u20's at the Worlds will be back sooner than expected !

Galah, your last comment is perceptive. Albeit they lost manfully to the baby blacks, the best the Aussie 20s can finish is 6th. There's no guarantee we'll do better than our 8th last time. The selection of the under 20s is a farce and I mean no disrespect to the players. The process simply underlines the unspoken truth that unless you are an Aus Schoolboy,GPS/CAS rep (from the right school) or part of the Gold or super academies, you have no hope of even TRIALLING for the 20s. There are many many club, colts and players from the non elite schools who would be equal to any player sent to the last 2 JRWCs, but under the current system, they are never seen and are unknown to the hierarchy. This flagrant elitism and blind faith in the private school system as the primary nursery will see the death of this code as a major sport in this country. It simply wouldn't happen in League, AFL or Football. Wake up Rugby.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Ryan09 Is this a general rant or is there some specific examples that you have of lads that have missed out by not attending an elite school or not being in the Gold squad as a 16/17 year old?

Only about 1/2 the current U20 team are NGS graduates. About 75% were from the Academy.

I don't have the detail on the School system that the boys attended, but it is a fairly safe bet that the ACT, and WA boys were not AAGPS, QLD GPS, or CAS boys. There seemed to be a fair smattering of ex-CHS boys in the squad.

 

[Blackers13]

Ryan09 Is this a general rant or is there some specific examples that you have of lads that have missed out by not attending an elite school or not being in the Gold squad as a 16/17 year old?

Only about 1/2 the current U20 team are NGS graduates. About 75% were from the Academy.

I don't have the detail on the School system that the boys attended, but it is a fairly safe bet that the ACT, and WA boys were not AAGPS, QLD GPS, or CAS boys. There seemed to be a fair smattering of ex-CHS boys in the squad.

Are you justifying the current system?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Ryan09, You haven't seen some of my rants elsewhere if you ask that question.

There is plenty wrong with the "system", but I am intrigued to understand if there are any specific examples of kids who were not in the academies, NGS, NSW Schoolboys or AAGPS/CAS school system etc than have fallen through "the system" and who deserve to be in France with the U20's right now.

 

[AussieDominance]

Todays Manly Daily reports that the Rebels aren't releasing players this weekend. What a joke. A showcase game loses the following players.
Manly
Jordy Reid
Kimami Sitauti
Caderyn Neville
Luke Jones
Pat Leafa
Uni
Trent Dyer
Tim Davidson
Alex Rokobaro
Nick Stirzaker
Tom English
Angus Roberts
Lachie Mitchell
Mitch Inman
Jarrod Saffy
Laurie Weeks.
What a joke. I wonder what the Force guys will be doing. I hear the Cottlesloe vs Nedlands game will be a better chance to develop their Sydney players than thisone or any of the other ones happening in Sydney this weekend.

Where is Luke Jones playing hasn't he swapped sides the last few seasons?

 

[lily]

Gordon Junior, Sydney Uni after school for 1 possibly 2 years. From memory 3rd year at Manly.

 

[Blackers13]

Ryan09, You haven't seen some of my rants elsewhere if you ask that question.

There is plenty wrong with the "system", but I am intrigued to understand if there are any specific examples of kids who were not in the academies, NGS, NSW Schoolboys or AAGPS/CAS school system etc than have fallen through "the system" and who deserve to be in France with the U20's right now.

I'm not qualified to say specifically as I haven't seen every player going around in Colts or last years schools in Sydney or Brisbane let alone WA etc. But that's my point, neither have the selectors. They have gone with a squad of players based on 2012 reputation and recommendation and there has not been a fair, open system of selections and trials to arrive at a side that is representative of the best under 20's players in Australia.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Ryan09, perhaps we should take this discussion over to the U20 Thread at http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...unior-world-championship-france.12138/page-18

You make some fairly broad brush assertions, that are frequently repeated. I'd just like to have one or two specific examples.

Lee Grant has put it far more eloquently than I have

"For the blog I need a few names of players who are:
- probably better than such and such in France (who are they better than and why?).
- were healthy when the squad was picked
- and were they part of the original 50 players invited to the first camp, or not.
- which eligible 1st and 2nd graders missed out - are they better than a fellow in France? What level rugby does the fellow in France play, that he is better than?

These are the specifics I need.

Or is the main gripe, not that players X, Y and Z are obviously better than A, B and C in France but that X, Y and Z were disadvantaged because they were not in the National Academy and A, B and C were, and progressed more quickly as a consequence - or if they about the same in ability as A, B and C then A, B and C would have got the benefit of the doubt?

Should any credence be given to assertions that the U20 selectors chose Academy player A over non-Academy player Z just because he had to justify the role of the Academy as a pathway?"

While I agree that there are areas of the U20 Turd that could be polished, I think they have pretty much got the best available Turd.

Preparation appears to be a more serious issue, than the non-selection of players that have been disadvantaged because they are not "known" to the selectors.

Is there a kid in Sydney Colts or Grade who should be in France with the U20's and why?

 

[Blackers13]

Ryan09, perhaps we should take this discussion over to the U20 Thread at http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/co...unior-world-championship-france.12138/page-18

You make some fairly broad brush assertions, that are frequently repeated. I'd just like to have one or two specific examples.

Lee Grant has put it far more eloquently than I have

"For the blog I need a few names of players who are:
- probably better than such and such in France (who are they better than and why?).
- were healthy when the squad was picked
- and were they part of the original 50 players invited to the first camp, or not.
- which eligible 1st and 2nd graders missed out - are they better than a fellow in France? What level rugby does the fellow in France play, that he is better than?

These are the specifics I need.

Or is the main gripe, not that players X, Y and Z are obviously better than A, B and C in France but that X, Y and Z were disadvantaged because they were not in the National Academy and A, B and C were, and progressed more quickly as a consequence - or if they about the same in ability as A, B and C then A, B and C would have got the benefit of the doubt?

Should any credence be given to assertions that the U20 selectors chose Academy player A over non-Academy player Z just because he had to justify the role of the Academy as a pathway?"

While I agree that there are areas of the U20 Turd that could be polished, I think they have pretty much got the best available Turd.

Preparation appears to be a more serious issue, than the non-selection of players that have been disadvantaged because they are not "known" to the selectors.

Is there a kid in Sydney Colts or Grade who should be in France with the U20's and why?

Regardless if I name players, which is subjective and unfair,my point is the process. Others outside the 50 invited were never given an opportunity. How many clubs were contacted to ask if they had anyone they felt should be looked at? The selection consultation stopped at the so called elite reputation and recommendation. I agree, let's get this discussion off this thread.

 

[The Missus]

Galah, your last comment is perceptive. Albeit they lost manfully to the baby blacks, the best the Aussie 20s can finish is 6th. There's no guarantee we'll do better than our 8th last time. The selection of the under 20s is a farce and I mean no disrespect to the players. The process simply underlines the unspoken truth that unless you are an Aus Schoolboy,GPS/CAS rep (from the right school) or part of the Gold or super academies, you have no hope of even TRIALLING for the 20s. There are many many club, colts and players from the non elite schools who would be equal to any player sent to the last 2 JRWCs, but under the current system, they are never seen and are unknown to the hierarchy. This flagrant elitism and blind faith in the private school system as the primary nursery will see the death of this code as a major sport in this country. It simply wouldn't happen in League, AFL or Football. Wake up Rugby.

 

[The Missus]

What about James Dargaville from last years team?

 

[I like to watch]

James doesn't count.
He obtained one of the Uni wildcards.This trumps Schoolboys CV's and academy placings.(And form)
That's not to say James was not worthy,just explaining how his selection still falls within "the system"

 

[young gun]

Gordon Junior, Sydney Uni after school for 1 possibly 2 years. From memory 3rd year at Manly.

Lily

is this in relation to Luke Jones? I thought, as a junior, he played in the same Manly Roo's team as Michael Hooper and Tom Kingston - maybe he's more of a Manly junior.

 

[I like to watch]

Nah, he played for St Ives and Gordan.I'm pretty sure

 

[southsider]

Lily

is this in relation to Luke Jones? I thought, as a junior, he played in the same Manly Roo's team as Michael Hooper and Tom Kingston - maybe he's more of a Manly junior.

this was my age group and if youd asked me who he played for my first answer would have been manly, he definatly didn't play for st ives in the 17's cause they didn't have a team....so you both could possibly be right. But then I always used to get him and greg Peterson mixed up