Scrum TMO required?

[CTPE]

Can't believe how often referees seem to get it wrong when adjudicating scrum penalties. Let's face it, most referees in their playing days, at whatever level, were outside backs and were so far removed from what was happening up front that they have absolutely no experience let alone understanding of the Dark Arts of front row machinations.

Given the implications of referees "taking a set" against one side's front row, which can often be unfounded, is there an argument that TMO's should include at least one ex 1, 2 or 3 to adjudicate on scrum issues?

 

[No4918]

No. Accountability for there performance and re-education should be fine. It is frustrating but the call is right the majority of the time.

 

[beserker]

The trouble starts when no-one can see who to blame for collapsing. Punters won't go to the game because half the match is spent resetting scrums. It's almost like the rules have to change to save the patrons. There needs to be an incentive for it not to be collapsed. It should be more like line outs where the defending side can nominate the numbers. At lease something tooo complicated for the front row to try and cheat.

 

[boyo]

Perhaps one reason is a dearth of ex-forwards becoming referees?

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

Where's the evidence that x-props can do a better job than the SANZAR referee panel?

I've seen plenty of x props referee and only a small few of them are able to translate their playing experience into a marginal advantage in the area of scrum officiating.

You could have a TMO panel for scrum decisions, it might yield slightly different decisions (maybe 1 or 2 a game). So would a specialist maul TMO though. Where do you stop?

The other problem with TMO's is that common sense doesn't restrain them as it does the on field referee. They rule by the letter of the law and give us strange decisions from time to time, where the on-field referee was quite content to let something go.

Also let's not forget the refs advantage of being right there in the heart of the game. He is on the same wave-length as the players and can often feel when a penalty is coming, whereas the TMO is quite separated from the whole ordeal and can never gain a real feel for the game.

At the end of the day it's just a game and scrums are sometimes anyone's guess. But that's why we love them!

 

[Dan54]

The refs don't get it wrong as often as the 'experts' that watch game on tv. Do we get front rowers to ref srums, run and ex 9 or 10 on to check that they do things alright and then have an outside back to check the running part. Just leave it as it is or it will never stop!!!

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Good God, a scrum TMO you must be shitting me, the whole TMO system in itself is enough of a sister kisser.

The vicariously-lived euphoria of try scoring drearily tempered for players, and, perhaps even more importantly, fans, by this exhilaration handbrake. The delirium as the player dots down but NO, simultaneous double whistle blast and the ref's, "check that one", "Time Out" stiffy killer. Classical conditioning quick to take purchase, the thrill quickly tempered, now every try has the nut-crimping inbuilt expectation of whistle review mania and a belated sombre "oh, they got it" 3 minutes after the fucking event. I may as well have a wank and then, pending review, wander off down to the bus stop afterwards to wait for the orgasm.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Good God, a scrum TMO you must be shitting me, the whole TMO system in itself is enough of a sister kisser.

The vicariously-lived euphoria of try scoring drearily tempered for players, and, perhaps even more importantly, fans, by this exhilaration handbrake. The delirium as the player dots down but NO, simultaneous double whistle blast and the ref's, "check that one", "Time Out" stiffy killer. Classical conditioning quick to take purchase, the thrill quickly tempered, now every try has the nut-crimping inbuilt expectation of whistle review mania and a belated sombre "oh, they got it" 3 minutes after the fucking event. I may as well have a wank and then, pending review, wander off down to the bus stop afterwards to wait for the orgasm.

Read that last night & just about sprayed my beer everywhere, just re-read it & damn near lost my coffee. You, sir, are a very very very bad man. Keep it up & I may even start giving a crap about the Blues.

Scrum TMO is a terrible idea BTW.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Any more interjections by TMOs will make the presentation of the game more like Gridiron, and that would be diabolical.

 

[fatprop]

The refs generally get it right, it is very difficult for the dominant pack to not get the majority of the penalties unless they play too many games.

In the end I want to see the dominant scrum be rewarded and under the current rules that dominant scrum becomes pretty obvious.

Basically a collapse on engagement is now because a prop is trying it on and a collapse or stand up after engagement comes from pressure and/or bad technique.

 

[ChargerWA]

But sometimes determining the dominant scrum is impossible. The real problem is when the scrums are evenly matched. A dominant scrum shoves the oppo off the ball.

When you have scenarios like last night where neither the Crusaders or rebels could dominate the scrum on either put in and the Leckie Lottery came into full effect.

In those scenarios after 3 resets and it being impossible to determine who is collapsing they should release the back 3 to take some weight off the scrums. That would pretty quickly highlight who is playing silly buggers. Either that or just bin the two props from the side which keeps collapsing.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

In those scenarios after 3 resets and it being impossible to determine who is collapsing they should release the back 3 to take some weight off the scrums. That would pretty quickly highlight who is playing silly buggers. Either that or just bin the two props from the side which keeps collapsing.

Why be half-assed about it? Get rid of the flankers, stick your 9 at the back of the scrum on your feed, have the 2 feed it & no pushing. Hard to believe no one thought of it before. Oh, hang on...

 

[liquor box]

I would get the blind side touch judge to look at that side of the scrum so two refs are involved.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I would get the blind side touch judge to look at that side of the scrum so two refs are involved.

He's already meant to.
Peyper seemed to be right on top of it for the first 60 minutes but lost his way in the scrum when it really counted.

 

[CTPE]

Set pieces in rugby set it apart because of the real contests involved - line outs seem to be reasonably well adjudicated as long the touchies do their jobs straight throw wise but scrum adjudication is just diabolical. If scrum TMO's are not the solution then refs either side of the scrum are. As for no 9's rolling the ball in straight is just as farcical - imagine the contest if refs actually fed the scrum!

 

[TOCC]

By law the scrum is supposed to a quick way to restart play, as it stands it doesn't suit that criteria.

I'm against teams milking penalties from scrums or time wasting at scrums. It's against the concept of a quick restart, it's negative play and even as an ex-prop I find these scrummaging sessions highly tedious.

I think a similar rule to that of the halfbacks clearing the ball from rucks should be employed, if it's available it should be a use it or lose it rule.

 

[Pfitzy]

TMO interference should be limited as follows:

• Maximum of three slowmo angles played once each
• Twenty seconds to deliver a decision
• No replays by the broadcaster thereafter
• Any fan caught on a website disputing it has their membership of rugby at all levels terminated immediately