Scrum Talk

[JJJ]

This thread started as "How good is our scrum?" but another post about scrums has been started so they have been merged - LG

As a Wallabies supporter scrums have been of special interest to me for years since we've been so terrible at them, and lost some huge matches because of it. There's no doubt that our scrum has turned a corner, but just how far around the corner have we come? Recent matches suggest quite a long way. We've shoved the Springboks around at the set-piece this season, and even put pressure on NZ (once Le Fuse was dragged). At Tokyo we got the better of them a few times. Although England contained us pretty well we dominated Ireland in no uncertain terms. Now Lievremont is calling our scrum "vicious" (relative to the Springboks at least), and Rowntree (Eng scrum coach) says it's "significantly stronger" than Argentina's.

Asked for his thoughts on Argentina's status as arguably the greatest scrummagers around, Gatland countered: "I disagree with that, they are not the greatest scrummaging threat. We've looked at tapes of the past.

"I've spoken to Graham Rowntree (England scrummaging coach), who said they thought the Australian scrum was significantly stronger than the Argentine one.

So where do we fit into the current international scrum pecking order? Is it possible we now have the best scrum in the world? Who would be your top 5? It's a shame that we aren't playing France or Italy to see how our boys measure up to them. The Welsh scrum seems to have gone to the dogs, and although Scotland have a decent one they're missing their standout prop in Euan Murray due to injury.

 

[fatprop]

Re: How good is our scrum?

The Welsh scrum will be a very big test, they are known for a few tricks, including backing off at the hit.

We will eat some grass

The French, ABs and Italians will continue to give us trouble

 

[Cutter]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Its definitely improved. Its hard to earn respect and a good reputation though and easy to lose it.

 

[Pfitzy]

Re: How good is our scrum?

You couldn't really say we've beaten the AB scrum when Woodcock was in it. Oh wait, except that time that Baxter handed him his sideways-packing arse inside the AB 22 and Joubert called it against us :

We're definitely ahead of where I thought we'd be, but you can't take much out of the Irish game because of their LHP being so inexperienced. Hayes might be a little past his best and didn't really set the world on fire at his peak in the scrum - he also had a few weeks off so would have been rusty as hell.

We definitely possess one of the top three loosehead props in the world at the set piece. Robinson has developed exactly along the lines I thought he might, and in a way its a shame we don't still have Greg Holmes pushing him along. He is the perfect example of a LHP doing what they ought to do: get under the big brick at THP and show him that hamburgers aren't a training method. He also gets around the park.

Alexander is definitely ahead of where I thought he'd be in terms of scrummaging, and he's been given the chance to learn and is around Baxter's level of competence at the moment, being slightly heavier and younger too. The thing is, unlike Baxter, he's not burdened with a poor reputation that could not be dispelled no matter how well he played. And with the current crop of know-nothing-about-scrums refs, that can only be good.

Then of course we possess two hookers who scrum bloody well. They're big for the spot at over 110kg, and both hit farken hard on the engage. Those extra wheels when you're trying to shove the opposition around are a blessing - I know from playing with stronger hookers that you lose a little on the strike but make it up with a good 8-man shove.

Throw in some locks who are doing their job and its all coming together nicely. Whether it continues to do so when Sharpe is back is another matter - hopefully Noriega slaps some sense into Darth and we continue onwards and upwards.

The most pleasing thing about the whole last 12 months is dispelling the myth about our scrum, and recovering from the days of Eddie Jones basically throwing away any thought of developing our scrum. Don't believe these blokes quoted in the media though: Bullshit is an oppo coach's best ally.

 

[Gagger]

Re: How good is our scrum?

I'd say the current scrum (followed by recent breakdown) performance is what I'm most proud about in this Wallaby team. Full hats off to the guys.

 

[gone]

Re: How good is our scrum?

You couldn't really say we've beaten the AB scrum when Woodcock was in it. Oh wait, except that time that Baxter handed him his sideways-packing arse inside the AB 22 and Joubert called it against us :

We're definitely ahead of where I thought we'd be, but you can't take much out of the Irish game because of their LHP being so inexperienced. Hayes might be a little past his best and didn't really set the world on fire at his peak in the scrum - he also had a few weeks off so would have been rusty as hell.

We definitely possess one of the top three loosehead props in the world at the set piece. Robinson has developed exactly along the lines I thought he might, and in a way its a shame we don't still have Greg Holmes pushing him along. He is the perfect example of a LHP doing what they ought to do: get under the big brick at THP and show him that hamburgers aren't a training method. He also gets around the park.

Alexander is definitely ahead of where I thought he'd be in terms of scrummaging, and he's been given the chance to learn and is around Baxter's level of competence at the moment, being slightly heavier and younger too. The thing is, unlike Baxter, he's not burdened with a poor reputation that could not be dispelled no matter how well he played. And with the current crop of know-nothing-about-scrums refs, that can only be good.

Then of course we possess two hookers who scrum bloody well. They're big for the spot at over 110kg, and both hit farken hard on the engage. Those extra wheels when you're trying to shove the opposition around are a blessing - I know from playing with stronger hookers that you lose a little on the strike but make it up with a good 8-man shove.

Throw in some locks who are doing their job and its all coming together nicely. Whether it continues to do so when Sharpe is back is another matter - hopefully Noriega slaps some sense into Darth and we continue onwards and upwards.

The most pleasing thing about the whole last 12 months is dispelling the myth about our scrum, and recovering from the days of Eddie Jones basically throwing away any thought of developing our scrum. Don't believe these blokes quoted in the media though: Bullshit is an oppo coach's best ally.

Great summary - although I would go a step further and say Robinson is the best loosehead in the world currently. He has manhandled every tighthead he has been up against this year.

 

[Mojoman]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Most improved scrum amongst the test nations by far. Hats off to Foley, Jim Williams for the work they've done with the Wobbly 8.

In terms of pecking order not sure. Amongst the TriNations packs it's probably equal with the AB's but definitely better than the Bok scrum. In saying that the current AB scrum is steady/sufficient without being dominant. It hasn't been the same since Hayman left.

I'd rate Robinson as the best loosehead currently, closely followed by The Beast and then Woodcock.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Re: How good is our scrum?

It's come along way for sure - very powerful scrum. However, I think a lot of fans and coaches still tar you with the same not-so-great scrum you had over the more recent years. That can be used to your advantage!

Be interesting to see how you go against the Italians, given the rogering they gave us over the weekend.

 

[mark_s]

Re: How good is our scrum?

I believe Patricio Noreiga is the walaby scrum coach, or atleast Jim Williams hired him to fix things up.

We have gone from having one of the worst scrums (of top tier nations) to being very respectible. We need to improve further if we want to be the best - but is that what we want- I am not so sure if it means trading off other skills.

 

[JJJ]

Re: How good is our scrum?

I'm worried though about Ben Alexander. He looks like he can do the job and will only get better with age and experience, but surely he has to play THP for the Brumbies? Isn't he still slated to play loosehead? It's also a shame he won't be able to benefit from Foley's expertise.

 

[fatprop]

Re: How good is our scrum?

I'm worried though about Ben Alexander. He looks like he can do the job and will only get better with age and experience, but surely he has to play THP for the Brumbies? Isn't he still slated to play loosehead? It's also a shame he won't be able to benefit from Foley's expertise.

The Brumbies believe Sheperdson is a better THP than the Wallaby incumbent ..............................

 

[JJJ]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Maybe he needs to shift to the Tahs then, since Big Al's career is winding down? It's handy to have a prop who can play both sides, but you'd want your THP to be a specialist. Props who can play both sides are really more something you'd want on the bench. Seems a bit rude to Al to take his place at national level then follow him to provincial level and take his place there too. But he's had a good run and has a solid career to fall back on anyway.

 

[fatprop]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Maybe he needs to shift to the Tahs then, since Big Al's career is winding down? It's handy to have a prop who can play both sides, but you'd want your THP to be a specialist. Props who can play both sides are really more something you'd want on the bench. Seems a bit rude to Al to take his place at national level then follow him to provincial level and take his place there too. But he's had a good run and has a solid career to fall back on anyway.

Nup

Dan Palmer will do fine

 

[Biffo]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Maybe he needs to shift to the Tahs then, since Big Al's career is winding down? It's handy to have a prop who can play both sides, but you'd want your THP to be a specialist. Props who can play both sides are really more something you'd want on the bench. Seems a bit rude to Al to take his place at national level then follow him to provincial level and take his place there too. But he's had a good run and has a solid career to fall back on anyway.

Nup

Dan Palmer will do fine

Yep to Nup

 

[The Jackal]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Maybe he needs to shift to the Tahs then, .....

or shift to Melbourne in 2011.

Robinson is definitely the worlds premier LH going around now. Has played against some of the best packs and come out with his head held high..


P.S: he was also robbed of the John Eales medal.

 

[Hugonaut]

Re: How good is our scrum?

Australian scrum very f*cking good.

Roncero of Argentina and Stade Francais and Gethin Jenkins of Wales and Cardiff also excellent LH props. I personally think that Woodcock hasn't been up to his previous best this season, although he's a bloody good prop.

 

[JJJ]

Re: How good is our scrum?

I just imagined Robinson getting injured.



Drinking heavily now.

 

[Spook]

Re: How good is our scrum?

I'm worried though about Ben Alexander. He looks like he can do the job and will only get better with age and experience, but surely he has to play THP for the Brumbies? Isn't he still slated to play loosehead? It's also a shame he won't be able to benefit from Foley's expertise.

The Brumbies believe Sheperdson is a better THP than the Wallaby incumbent ..............................

Fat, that's unfair now. We don't know what'll happen next year. Rumour has it Ma'afu could be loose head.

A knowledgeable person on this very forum assured me Alexander had been training at TH quite a bit during the S14 when we are all doubting him as a TH for Oz.

 

[mark_s]

Re: How good is our scrum?

It seems like periods of Aus scrum competiveness always coincides with the appointment of a coach with specialist srummaging abilities (e.g Foley, Noriega and the Qld bloke whose name escapes me etc)? Why don't don't we always have one? Why don't we have a specialist line out/restart coach? What does jim Williams otherwise do?

 

[Ash]

Re: How good is our scrum?

It seems like periods of Aus scrum competiveness always coincides with the appointment of a coach with specialist srummaging abilities (e.g Foley, Noriega and the Qld bloke whose name escapes me etc)? Why don't don't we always have one? Why don't we have a specialist line out/restart coach? What does jim Williams otherwise do?

Alec Evans. Back working with the Reds next year in a part time capacity. Is really getting on, though.