School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Bowside]

I think the best way to solve this problem is require all scholarships to start in grade 7. See what schools actually care about the kids welfare. Especially once they turn 16 and decide they don't want to play rugby anymore.

 

[cyclopath]

I think the best way to solve this problem is require all scholarships to start in grade 7. See what schools actually care about the kids welfare. Especially once they turn 16 and decide they don't want to play rugby anymore.

Interesting thing with academic scholarships is that the student needs to maintain a certain level, or it may be reviewed or revoked. Punting on Year 7 kids for sports scholarships just too risky - for the above reasons, and also kids that stop growing, have bad injuries, decide they like another sport more etc.

 

[Bowside]

Interesting thing with academic scholarships is that the student needs to maintain a certain level, or it may be reviewed or revoked. Punting on Year 7 kids for sports scholarships just too risky - for the above reasons, and also kids that stop growing, have bad injuries, decide they like another sport more etc.

Exactly the point. Winning rugby games is secondary to producing a fine young man in any school of integrity. If the student gets injured and can't play anymore, does he stop being a worthy student?

Schools can do what they like, they have their reasons.

But I think a rule like this would force the GPS as a whole, and the schools that make it up, to act in good spirit.

 

[Jasdec]

Ball's in your court. Literally.

Careful Cyclopath, he could be a nut.

 

[DragonMan]

Some Notes..
1. 1. The Scots 1stXV this year had 2 or 3 boys only on Scholarship – it was a freakishly talented ‘natural’ year – they deserved to be outright GPS premiers and in a level playing field they would have been. Normally I would feel sorry for them that they have been ‘caught up’ in this unfolding drama – but unfortunately as Scots are main offender number 2, I am not.
2. 2. Scots however are a big recruiter – their 16A’s team this year was heckled by Scots own supporters – I have been told that many Scots full fee paying parents are disgusted by what has happened – some have told me 8 new boys this year, others have said 10!! All because historically that year has not been winning. Scots Basketball 1sts is almost all Scholarship (since when is Basketball important?).
3. 3. The Newington 1stXV this year however broke all GPS records for rorting the system - 13 or 14 of the boys were on Scholarships. Only one boy started at the School in Year 7 – Lachlan Anderson – everybody else arrived in year 9 or later. Yes 14, year 9 or after in the 1stXV – not 14 as stated in an earlier post for both 1sts and 2nds.
4. 4. The only time anybody went close to Newington’s effort this year was Scots in 1993 which cost High what would have been its last ever GPS Rugby title – which confirms two things – One this is not a new problem and Two these schools place way to much importance on 100 or 150 year anniversary’s.

I am a big supporter of balanced scholarship programs and intake. I think when it is handled well it enriches every School, – Unfortunately when you take things too far – way way too far – it just ruins it. Newington crowds at Rugby this year were the lowest in living history – unusual when the team is winning. Certainly the 2 round comp, and the ‘absent’ 3rd grade comp did not help – but the reality is MANY people at Newington, both Parents and some boys wanted them to lose. Boys have dropped out of Rugby because they think – ‘I will never make an open Rugby team here’. Clearly the situation is unhealthy.
Where are you getting this information that only one of the First XV started before year 9? The Captain Lachlan Cannell, LIam Bennett, Matt Serhon, Lachlan Anderson and at least 3 others started at year 7 or before in one of the preps.
Consider the following
1. 1. Most Rugby players in year 7 at every GPS School would like to make it into firsts – it is their dream.
2. 2. Parents who are paying full fees and standing on the sidelines watching their sons in the 13a’s and 13b’s are probably thinking and hoping for the same thing.
3. 3. Everybody who attends Scots & New (& Joeys) know that GPS rules say no sporting scholarships – yet they know that their Schools blatantly break the rules – This is saying to the kids – it is ok to break the rules in life – do whatever you need to do to get ahead - it is a very BAD message.
4. 4. 'Somebody' must assume that the Parents at his School are idiots – the Scots parents all know the truth. Scots (& New) will argue – ‘yes they are on Scholarships, but they are not for Rugby – they are ‘all rounder’ Scholarships’ – Please, who are they kidding!!!!
5. 5. Newington and Scots ( re 16A’s) seem to have no desire to improve the boys within – it is just easier in their eyes to buy superstars rather than try and get the best out of the boys. Newington and Scots 6 years ago in the 13 & 14A’s had some very close contests – 9 of those Scots boys made firsts and have improved dramatically – only one Newington boy was given that same opportunity. Scots this year in the 16A’s have given up on trying. It is on the Schools part a dereliction of duty – isn’t a School meant to nurture and improve!
6. 6. I am worried that many of these poorly treated boys will not play Rugby post school – this will not only be their lose, but also Rugby’s lose – for many the treatment and circumstance is just demoralizing.
7. 7. It is better to loose with dignity and honour than to win by cheating.

I played in the 13 & 14a’s and eventually firsts – I would have been absolutely gutted if I had missed out because my School bought in NSW reps in year 9, year 10 and then even more in year 11. As a parent who is paying huge fees your expectations would be for your Son to be treated well – not to be treated appallingly!

Dismantling of the system – and hopefully this action by the 5 heads is the beginning of the end – may in the long term even see the return of Grammar & High to Firsts. As a minimum however it will create a more balanced and more passionate comp and remove some of the duty of care issues that Shore parents and teachers must have been concerned about this year. It will also force Schools like Scots and New to treat their own students much better than they have been.

New have effectively spent $500,000 earning a co-premiership this year (13 boys at say 25K – 6 of whom were borders at say an additional 15K each, more boys on scholarships in 2nds, more top line coaches than the Waratahs etc etc etc). Scots have gone professional (supposedly the main reason that Joeys have joined the gang of 5) – how many schools in Australia have a hyperbaric chamber? Scots next year may challenge Newington’s Scholarship madness for Rugby as well as their current Basketball madness. The whole thing is offensive.

My suggested way forward
1. 1. Unlimited Scholarships – but they can ONLY be given out in year 7. No School can afford to carry 13 or 14 ‘free’ boys for 6 years. A Scholarship boy from year 7 becomes a part of the School – it stops the Scots 16A scenario which is not healthy. It is also much harder sometimes to pick the year 12 stars in year 7 – few boys that make the primary School NSW team(s) also make the under 18’s team – this will deter them from going too berserk.
2. 2. Any exceptions to the above is OK only if agreed to by a majority of the GPS Schools – for eg because of Newington’s demographic and because of boys leaving the sport because of the madness of the last few years, they may have trouble fielding the appropriate numbers in the opens (No 3rds!) – under these circumstances the other Schools may agree to some later additional intake.
3. 3. Adopt the Shore and Iggies game day program approach – they list every team the boys have played in during their time at the School. Providing this information to the host School and printing it in your program on your game days is compulsory. Eg Tom Smith, 13d (Soccer), 14e, 15c, 16a, 2nds. This stops them getting away with anything improper. Any boys that are down as starting in the 15’s or 16’s can be easily researched – just a walk down the sidelines will find out if they are full fee paying or on Scholarship – the beauty of teenagers is that there are no secrets!

Finally – I am not the parent of a child who has been negatively impacted by ‘Scholarship’ stupidity, nor am I a current student – though I have stood on many sidelines and heard parents and boys complain – it is easy to feel, and understand their pain.

And as quoted in today’s SMH – I could not have said it better.
The King's School headmaster Tim Hawkes, who declined to comment on Scots, said the use of such inducements killed ''off meaningful competition … Do we play sport to develop character, resilience and teamwork, or do we play sport to build enrolments, prestige and provide the gift of bragging rights?''

My advice to New & Scots – apologise and admit you went too far – agree to follow the current GPS rules OR assist in the creation of a new set of rules which you WILL adhere to - anything else may create long term problems within the GPS.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Inside Shoulder,


I read that comment about Zonk Mylonis and had a quiet chuckle. I think we have all experienced a Zonk or two in our lives that we can relate to, and good on good old Zonk for giving it a red hot go even though he really had no clue.

My missus drew the comments to my attention: though we know nothing of him other than what appears he has become a cult hero in our house already!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The bursary that keeps on giving:
"''I was cheated,'' the 17-year-old says. ''I wanted to play Firsts basketball for two years but the bringing in of imports didn't give me a chance. The school didn't help me at all.''


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...ots-student-20130925-2uem1.html#ixzz2fvm0IGrC

This is the very thing Lambert has denied, as I understand his somewhat confusing position.
I'm intrigued by the Herald's disclaimer: "Fairfax Media does not suggest that all of these players received scholarships." That's the whole point of the story!!!!!
Inside Shoulder Media does not suggest that all of these players received scholarships.
By the way: Jake White is a school teacher.

 

[Jaghond]

It will be interesting to see whether Dr’s Hawkes and Wright embrace their own suggestions / requests for a new era of “non-professionalism” in schoolboy sport by returning rowing training to the “old days” of 2 afternoons a week, and recommending their tennis athletes not spend half a year at the AIS receiving “professional” coaching…………………

As Dr Wright is seeking his parents support for the proposed “boycott” (reference his letter to all parents of 25/9/13) – I wonder how those 2 schools rowers & tennis players might feel if it was thrown back in their faces……….

I actually feel rather sorry for the boys of all of the schools – being dragged into something that is essentially not of their making – but rather of their parents making………….this whole mess only serves to lessen the undoubted commitment and effort that they ALL put in, no matter what the sport, whatever school they are fortunate enough to attend.

As for the SMH, now I know why I don’t bother buying it or reading it any more……..

Have a pleasant day.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
By the way: Jake White is a school teacher.

Is Inside Shoulder Media suggesting that he is leaving the Ponies to go to Scots as Director of Rugby?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is Inside Shoulder Media suggesting that he is leaving the Ponies to go to Scots as Director of Rugby?

No.
Inside Shoulder Media is just stirring: although he seem adequately qualified for world domination - or is that no longer the goal? I forget.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Sport has returned to the TSC website. No mention of domination or athlete profiles. It's been toned down considerably.

The individual links to "basketball","rugby" etc don't work. You return to the home page. Still a bit of work being done in the background.

Are there any other schools "amending" their web sites in parallel?

 

[rugbyscribe]

At the risk of sounding like a 2nd rate politician or a hollywood screen writer - they may have been motivated by the implications of not acting.
That may explain why they chose a somewhat lower profile sport to raise their issues through.
There seemed to be any number of inconsistencies and contradictions in the interview relating to the intersection between the educational philosophy and the sport philosophy.
Were I a parent those inconsistencies would worry me whichever side of the freeby I was on.

I agree with the suggestion in your 2nd paragraph. Pretty clever ploy in all of this from Shore,Grammar, Kings, Joeys and Riverview. Using basketball as the vehicle to complain about scholarship imports rather than rugby deflects a lot of the criticism that could be thrown back at most of them for their own involvement in this activity. Newington were also smart to stay out of the protest and are sitting pretty comfortably on the sidelines from a media perspective.

 

[Quick Hands]

The individual links to "basketball","rugby" etc don't work. You return to the home page. Still a bit of work being done in the background.

Are there any other schools "amending" their web sites in parallel?

It was unique in its depth and focus. Most of the schools have fairly generic comments about the importance of sport and that's about it. Grammar's was even more brief. I wouldn't expect that any of the others would need to change. It appears only one school was aiming for world domination and wanted to let everyone know about it - until a few days ago that is.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

It was unique in its depth and focus. Most of the schools have fairly generic comments about the importance of sport and that's about it. Grammar's was even more brief. I wouldn't expect that any of the others would need to change. It appears only one school was aiming for world domination and wanted to let everyone know about it - until a few days ago that is.

As someone said at the time: thats what happens when you let year 7 do the proof reading. I suspect Lambert did not know what had been written on there.

 

[Quick Hands]

The bursary that keeps on giving:
"''I was cheated,'' the 17-year-old says. ''I wanted to play Firsts basketball for two years but the bringing in of imports didn't give me a chance. The school didn't help me at all.''


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/educ...ots-student-20130925-2uem1.html#ixzz2fvm0IGrC

This is the very thing Lambert has denied, as I understand his somewhat confusing position.
I'm intrigued by the Herald's disclaimer: "Fairfax Media does not suggest that all of these players received scholarships." That's the whole point of the story!!!!!
Inside Shoulder Media does not suggest that all of these players received scholarships.
By the way: Jake White is a school teacher.

I wonder what Dr Lambert and his advisors will make of this? I don't know what subject he taught, perhaps it wasn't maths because every boy that is brought in is going to displace someone as teams are limited in numbers.

The quote that you listed from the article is a fairly damning commentary as to the downside of the importing/recruiting issue. The comments in the article attributed to Messrs Todd and Torrance weren't that helpful for Dr Lambert either, I wouldn't have thought. I hope he has a deep bunker up there as I suspect the salvos will keep on coming.

 

[Quick Hands]

I agree with the suggestion in your 2nd paragraph. Pretty clever ploy in all of this from Shore,Grammar, Kings, Joeys and Riverview. Using basketball as the vehicle to complain about scholarship imports rather than rugby deflects a lot of the criticism that could be thrown back at most of them for their own involvement in this activity. Newington were also smart to stay out of the protest and are sitting pretty comfortably on the sidelines from a media perspective.

Newington have maintained complete silence for at least 2 years. An example that Dr Lambert might have followed in retrospect instead of going on the attack and painting himself into a corner.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

And Grandpa Jarse used to say, "best to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove any doubt."

 

[Brian Westlake]

You're not here for a long time just a good time, eh Stan?

Oh... I would say about as long as fsrugby.

 

[Brian Westlake]

Is Inside Shoulder Media suggesting that he is leaving the Ponies to go to Scots as Director of Rugby?

You already have Stallion Rugby there HJ.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Funny thing that academic scholarships are allowed with no one really complaining about them.

Similar to sporting scholarships, academically gifted kids induced to AAGPS school with the prospect of a fee reduction will result in artificially inflated academic results for the school they attend.

Full fee paying Parents pay handsomely for the privaledge of having little Johnny attend a school that is ranked high in the HSC results table, in the hope that little Johnny will similarly receive a high academic score.

Academic scholarships are just as big a marketing rort/marketing tool as sporting scholarships are. They distort the academic "playing field", and obfuscate the ability to make a valid comparison of the overall performance of the School in it's most core deliverable.

Level the playing field properly. Get rid of the all Scholarships: musical, academic, leadership, sporting, pastoral and all rounder.