School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[beserker]

Those of us who attempt to contribute by guiding players from various schools probably do so because we feel that we can help each kid be the best player he can be and pay no regard to whether his school, our school, the Rebels or the ABs become the ultimate beneficiary of the fully realized player.
The game trumps everything!


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And yet all this good work is gifted to the schools until the players join colts after year 12. I think the schools have a duty of care to Rugby and the offer of a couple of scholarships or not should be considered in this light.

 

[lincoln]

No, the interesting thing is that they do hilight it - ie they are saying it is a good thing. But you're assumption that if they didn't start in year 7 means that they are on scholarship is flawed.

Didn't make any assumptions, or even outrageous claims like you did re Shore 2011 VIII.

 

[beserker]

Didn't make any assumptions, or even outrageous claims like you did re Shore 2011 VIII.

You will need to point to independent sources to dispel what everyone knows. Shore made a mistake, simple as that, and the wounds can not heal until they admit their mistake. What followed in the sheds afterwards was a disgrace that could have brought all GPS sport in to disrepute.

 

[beserker]

Coins in coin holders?
You really are out of touch.
All tolls are electronic now.



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Okay, I think I can hack into my RFID cattle reader and we can scan each car's e=tag that goes in and out of Northbridge carpark. You can flash your lights if you want to donate to the Shore Rugby Scholarship, the SRS for short, and we can wand you. ( also can cattle prod aerial for cheapies).

 

[Vegas]

No. You need to decode what he is saying. It is wrong ... This is just the sort of helicopter parenting that lets them down as soon as they are challenged in life.

You are a joke... don't deviate from the question .... you cant give me the details because there are none .... shame on you for suggesting that this fantastic side are anything but... stop jumping at shadows and start dealing with facts .....

Rob Hart and Beserker - your posts show just how much of a problem this flagrant proliferation of scholarships has become - it has obviously screwed up not only the schools', but also people's logic and ability to see the trees for the forest. Personal attacks, naming of players and playing the man and not the ball, have no place on this forum - so pull your heads in - your personal nonsense is ruining the forum.

Those of us who attempt to contribute by guiding players from various schools probably do so because we feel that we can help each kid be the best player he can be and pay no regard to whether his school, our school, the Rebels or the ABs become the ultimate beneficiary of the fully realized player.
The game trumps everything!

IS - I enjoy your posts, but I fear that you too may have been blinkered by this whole nonsense, but what about kids being the best all round , educated people they can be ? Last time I looked, schools were for learning, and rugby at school was a simple part of their overall fabric - a great sport for boys to enjoy with their mates, learn how to be part of a team - both the steeling lessons from a loss, and the joy and satisfaction of busting a gut for collective glory . ( and by the way, the pathways out of this pre "scholarship arms race" seemed to be good enough for the Wallabies to win a couple of World Cups and Bledisloes on the way !! )

I have said it before, and unfortunately look as though I will be saying it for some time - this is all just arse around !

Isnt that a sad indictment on where this whole situation has gotten to - Go to school and learn in two years what is supposed to be done in one so that you can spend the school week doing what traditionally should be done after school and on weekends ! The priorities are truly screwed up !
This whole scholarship debacle is to the GPS schooling system what myxomatosis was to rabbits !

How the hell can this nonsense be stopped - or is it truly beyond repair ??

 

[beserker]

How the hell can this nonsense be stopped - or is it truly beyond repair ??

Vegas, I am sure your post is well intentioned, but I think we are all wanting the best education for our boys and you shouldn't be claiming a mortgage on this. We can disagree on the best way to that, of course, but part of the fun in finding the best course of action is not to know the answer in advance.

 

[GTPIH]

Are you honestly asking me to substantiate what is a very widely known fact with evidence that it is not my right to necessarily give out. We all know that plenty of kids, if not the vast majority of the kids, in the Scots 1st XV are on scholarships, the worst argument you could possibly make is to try and deny this - in this particular instance I don't feel that I have the right to go around naming kids, some of which I know as a matter of fact are, and some who I have heard from many sources are - because I value their right to privacy and also don't want to look wrong if I name a particular kid who isn't.
This is in no way a concession that they don't - it is an absolute indisputable fact that the majority of the Scots team, indeed many of the better players, are, and that is an absolute fact.

You are clearly a very stupid individual if you are able to get up Newington for doing exactly what you do. All this demonstrates to me is that when the boot is on the other foot you are willing to bitch and moan about it. Well the boot is on your foot, and I am more than happy to bitch and moan about it, and I am sure the compassion you have surely derived from your exquisite empathetic rationale will make you understand just how reasonable my argument is.

I am under the impression that you are some sort of a troll. Literally no person could be as ignorant, nor as blatantly stupid as you are. If you are a student then I more than understand it given the fact that you evidently go to Scots, but if you are an old boy, or some kind of parent, surely the, albeit limited, exposure you get to the rest of the world (i.e. outside of your own rectum) would have at least somewhat instilled some intelligence into you, but evidently not.

Scots are perhaps worse than Newington in the frequency, and potency of the scholarship they give out. And it isn't just rugby. It is every single activity - waterpolo, cricket, basketball, soccer. In fact, they have compiled a central database for us all here - https://sports.tsc.nsw.edu.au/athletes/current-athletes/ .

This website, the general scholarships, and the superfluous professionalism of the Scots College in regards to Sport (particularly Rugby) and to a greater extent, many other schools, is absolutely horrible. I don't know about you, but personally I am appalled when I see students, kids under the age of 18 whose primary focus is to receive and education - to learn the skills necessary to contribute to society, are distinguished from their peers as "athletes", I am appalled when I see certain individuals separated into this celebrity status through the school's own choosing and appalled when I see so blatantly and unashamedly as Scots have done.

All this does is send to me a very clear message - all Scots care about is winning. They have sent that message not only to their rival GPS schools, but to their students, who have been indoctrinated into a perception of elitism, of ignorance and of superiority as a result of the actions of this school.

It is time to end this propaganda, it is time for Scots to stop prioritising winning and giving celebrity status to its "athletes", it is time for marketing and attempts to increase enrolment numbers to stop.

Take some time to think.

Scots aren't angels but get your facts right. The majority >10 players started at Scots in year 7 or prep and AREN'T on scholarships. The same applies to the 2012 1st XV.

as for the central database you refer to:

Starkey - Started Year 7, 2nd generation, no scholarship
Kellaway - Started Year 7, 3rd generation, no scholarship
Martin - I don't know
Skelly - Started Year 10 (boarder), rumour has it NSW Cricket subsidising fees as they wanted him in Sydney
Coutts - Started in Prep, 2nd generation, no scholarship
Price - Started in Prep, 3rd generation, no scholarship
Mbakwe - Started in Year 7, no scholarship

 

[The Spectator]

Great list above. What about a similar list for the 16s? I will need to cross reference for 2015; the next year I am interested in.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

The Director of sport was charged with talent scouting and working with support groups "wish lists". He would be given funds to purchase players. Simple. It was even known that he pressured the Prep 1st XV coach (who was also NSWCIS coach) to provide details of young players who could be enticed. One player of note was Jim Stewart who came across from St Augustine's.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Scots aren't angels but get your facts right. The majority >10 players started at Scots in year 7 or prep and AREN'T on scholarships. The same applies to the 2012 1st XV.

as for the central database you refer to:

Starkey - Started Year 7, 2nd generation, no scholarship
Kellaway - Started Year 7, 3rd generation, no scholarship
Martin - I don't know
Skelly - Started Year 10 (boarder), rumour has it NSW Cricket subsidising fees as they wanted him in Sydney
Coutts - Started in Prep, 2nd generation, no scholarship
Price - Started in Prep, 3rd generation, no scholarship
Mbakwe - Started in Year 7, no scholarship

From post #1727 in this thread (full text here):

The Director of sport was charged with talent scouting and working with support groups "wish lists". He would be given funds to purchase players. Simple. It was even known that he pressured the Prep 1st XV coach (who was also NSWCIS coach) to provide details of young players who could be enticed. One player of note was Jim Stewart who came across from St Augustine's.

 

[GTPIH]

Greg Scott from Knox has been the NSW CIS primary rugby coach since at least 2006. There is no senior NSW CIS team. I don't see him pushing boys to Scots.

 

[beserker]

Again, you really need to do the work and analyse the message that Grammar is making to its customer base. (in post 1736 and referenced in 1737). In short they seem to be saying that while it is okay for them, SGS to select their pupils, what a shame it is, that others are also now beginning to do the same (all be it in sport). It's not such a good argument really. I prefer the post, somewhere in here, that reckons it's easier to get an athlete to learn schoolwork than it is to get a clever boy to be a sportsman. I don't know if it's true, but at least it tries to see the whole of the boy.

 

[Oranges]

Get your facts straight and i challenge you to tell me who in the Scots First 15 is an import?????????? You should be ashamed of yourself!!!!

Better explain the scots no 10 from Wellington to me. Got the call up the day before easter to start the day after Easter...

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Greg Scott from Knox has been the NSW CIS primary rugby coach since at least 2006. There is no senior NSW CIS team. I don't see him pushing boys to Scots.

But there's no doubt Stewart came from auggies is there?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Again, you really need to do the work and analyse the message that Grammar is making to its customer base. (in post 1736 and referenced in 1737). In short they seem to be saying that while it is okay for them, SGS to select their pupils, what a shame it is, that others are also now beginning to do the same (all be it in sport). It's not such a good argument really. I prefer the post, somewhere in here, that reckons it's easier to get an athlete to learn schoolwork than it is to get a clever boy to be a sportsman. I don't know if it's true, but at least it tries to see the whole of the boy.

You mean albeit - and that's why it is not such a bad argument.
Grammar do not "select" 15, 12 or 3 students from the Maths Olympiad.
In fact they do not even select necessarily the 180 "best" academic applicants: If you want more information PM me.
A "grammar" school properly so called was and is intended to provide a preparation for university.
Rugby and other sports within schools are offered as an adjunct to the formal education because they are thought to enhance the effect of education, to teach other valuable life lessons and to round out rather than supplant a formal education.
By placing the focus on the sport the tail is wagging the educational dog.

 

[beserker]

You mean albeit - and that's why it is not such a bad argument.
Grammar do not "select" 15, 12 or 3 students from the Maths Olympiad.
In fact they do not even select necessarily the 180 "best" academic applicants: If you want more information PM me.
A "grammar" school properly so called was and is intended to provide a preparation for university.
Rugby and other sports within schools are offered as an adjunct to the formal education because they are thought to enhance the effect of education, to teach other valuable life lessons and to round out rather than supplant a formal education.
By placing the focus on the sport the tail is wagging the educational dog.

If only. You really need citations for all of these claims. No prospective student who has won a Maths Olympiad would forget to add it to their Grammar interview. Is rugby really so different to Latin? No school has as its aim to get you into uni, but rather to foster critical thought and not be swayed by any advertising bumf, even the sophisticated stuff from drs Wright and Vallance (?spelling).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

If only. You really need citations for all of these claims. No prospective student who has won a Maths Olympiad would forget to add it to their Grammar interview. Is rugby really so different to Latin? No school has as its aim to get you into uni, but rather to foster critical thought and not be swayed by any advertising bumf, even the sophisticated stuff from drs Wright and Vallance (?spelling).

What claims?
You don't even read what I post, for instance: I said it was preparation not an aim.
What advertising "bumf"?

 

[beserker]

What claims?
You don't even read what I post, for instance: I said it was preparation not an aim.
What advertising "bumf"?

Schools not intended as a preparation for university, my friend. Not even SGS, not even close, for it would be so much the lesser if that was the case.

As for the Bumff, it'd be pretty much everything that was written with their student's hectoring helicopter parents in mind. Which are usually the loudest.

Let's have the same no of rugby scholarships as music ones, or none at all. You can get rid of all of them for all I care. I hate to see the recipient's parents so embarrassingly beholden to their schools - mothers answering the school phones, dad's cleaning out the gutters just to say thank you, while Oliver Jnr farts out some a-tonal Shostakovich on the bugle to an audience of like minded parents more concerned with their parked car. Or, welcome them both.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Schools not intended as a preparation for university, my friend. Not even SGS, not even close, for it would be so much the lesser if that was the case.

As for the Bumff, it'd be pretty much everything that was written with their student's hectoring helicopter parents in mind. Which are usually the loudest.

Let's have the same no of rugby scholarships as music ones, or none at all. You can get rid of all of them for all I care. I hate to see the recipient's parents so embarrassingly beholden to their schools - mothers answering the school phones, dad's cleaning out the gutters just to say thank you, while Oliver Jnr farts out some a-tonal Shostakovich on the bugle to an audience of like minded parents more concerned with their parked car. Or, welcome them both.

You are all over the shop.

I am often asked about my "philosophy of education". Few things in modern life invite more argument, yet the philosophy of Sydney Grammar School is simply and easily expressed. We exist in order to provide our boys with a liberal, humane, pre-vocational education.
The word "liberal" comes from a Latin root meaning "free". Our curriculum is liberal in the sense that it is not based on the idea that you must "learn how to earn". There's time for that later. It is humane in the sense that our traditions stem ultimately from the classical tradition, and its subsequent reinterpretations both in the Judaeo-Christian context of the European Renaissance and in the context of modern scientific knowledge. And pre-vocational in the sense that we aim to give you a solid physical, intellectual and moral formation in order to prepare you for the specialized vocational training most of you will receive later in life. In practice, this means that we reject attitudes that belittle the importance of being human.
http://www.sydgram.nsw.edu.au/headmaster/

 

[Quick Hands]

Scots aren't angels but get your facts right. The majority >10 players started at Scots in year 7 or prep and AREN'T on scholarships. The same applies to the 2012 1st XV.

as for the central database you refer to:

Starkey - Started Year 7, 2nd generation, no scholarship
Kellaway - Started Year 7, 3rd generation, no scholarship
Martin - I don't know
Skelly - Started Year 10 (boarder), rumour has it NSW Cricket subsidising fees as they wanted him in Sydney
Coutts - Started in Prep, 2nd generation, no scholarship
Price - Started in Prep, 3rd generation, no scholarship
Mbakwe - Started in Year 7, no scholarship

That's 5 you've identified as NOT being on a scholarship.