SANZAR/Super rugby future format

[Lindommer]

The current broadcast deal with News Corp/Foxtel expires in 2010 with negotiations under way for a new contract to be substantially agreed on some time later this year. Added to the uncertainties of a new form of SH rugby is the current global financial crisis; not a good time to be looking to increase the number of teams with their hands out to receive money from above. The Super 12/14 competitions have been an outstanding success by any measure and must be built upon to maintain their prominent position in the Australasian sporting panorama. My suggestion for a future Super competition is simple and modest:

1. South Africa, Australia and New Zealand to each have five franchises (15th franchise to go to Melbourne);
2. Each franchise to play their country franchises home AND away;
3. Each franchise to play foreign franchises home OR away;
4. Final series to include five or six teams over three weeks;
5. Super rugby to start in March and finish in September;
6. Some games to be broadcast on free-to-air-TV.
7. Some games to be played on Saturday or Sunday afternoons.

A future form for the TriNations is a bit more difficult to suggest. I'm of the opinion there are too many tests against South Africa and New Zealand at the moment and would like to see them cut back a bit. If the Super series is expanded as suggested above there'll be more top level rugby involving Australian derbies and, hopefully, SANZAR won't feel pressured to offer so many tests to its broadcast partner. There's also the matter of Argentina's future with the attendant travel difficulties. The TriNations was expanded from four tests for each country to six under the current broadcast arrangement which commenced in 2006. My suggestions for a future TriNations:

1. Argentina to be included (how they get their European-based professionals to return for matches in July-September is their problem);
2. Each country to play the other three countries home and away; that makes for six tests for each country and a total of 12 SANZAR tests each year.

The prospect of including a team from Japan, the Pacific Islands or North America simply isn't feasible. And, to be honest, the structure of any future competitions involving these countries is a matter for the iRB.

Comment away.

 

[Scotty]

If the Super comp is to stay, with SA, Nz and Oz - then I would strongly support this suggestion of an extra local derby round. I'm sure broadcasters would as well, not to mention the extended finals series.

Now we just have to get SA and Nz to agree....

 

[fatprop]

I just want a two round home and away comp

 

[Moses]

If the Argies are included in the 4N, wouldn't that constitute an International window forcing their clubs to release players?

 

[Scarfman]

This is the part of your argument that I like the best:

1. Argentina to be included (how they get their European-based professionals to return for matches in July-September is their problem);

Build it and they will come. Or, if you prefer, include them and they will sort it out. It might take a couple of years before they are competitive, but there's no doubt it would happen.

 

[Blue]

Can't see this working. SA is not going to give up the Currie Cup which starts in May and neither is NZ the NPC

It looks like too much Rugby. What, 16 regular season games plus a finals series that could go up to four games? That's twenty games. So the 3N / 4N then ends just before the Spring tours.

If anything this whole thing should shrink, nto expand. How I don't know, but adding more matches in my opinion will just increase the existing issues of travel, player exhaustion, too many boring games etc.

 

[Moses]

One thing the saffas have going for this awesome plan is having your own rugby grounds. If the Blues or Force tried this there would be a clash as the cricketers use the grounds in summer

 

[Blue]

If the Super comp is to stay, with SA, Nz and Oz - then I would strongly support this suggestion of an extra local derby round. I'm sure broadcasters would as well, not to mention the extended finals series.

Now we just have to get SA and Nz to agree....

Therein lies the dilemma. O'Neill wants the Super XX to fund a local comp in Aus. NZ and SA are not goign to agree. Any two stage comp with local pools looks pretty doomed to me although it would be exciting.

 

[PaarlBok]

I just want a two round home and away comp

Agree.

Like Blue state no ways we want MORE local derbies. We have our CC for that plus the S14 as it is. We still draw a crowd of 47000 at Newlands last weekend for the Sharks game and 30000+ plus for the Lions vs Cheetah game.

If you lot want the PI, Japan and Argies in you may aswell add Namibia & Zimbabwe.

Why on this earth cant Aus have their own CC competition?

 

[Scotty]

Not enough money, support and number of high quality players.

 

[Turban]

One thing the saffas have going for this awesome plan is having your own rugby grounds. If the Blues or Force tried this there would be a clash as the cricketers use the grounds in summer

They play cricket at Subi now? Someone better tell the WACA.

Just because some people are bored with more games doesn't mean everyone is. I'd love more games the problem is finding the players to make them compeditive and enjoyable matches. I'm not sure why everyone want's change I'm pretty happy with it as is. The only thing I would like is for Force away games (and Wallaby games for that matter) to be scheduled to avoid club rugby times in Perth. Very annoying to have to video the game only to walk into the club house to grab a beer and hear the score on the news etc. Although to be fair it did save me the trouble of watching the Force v Chiefs in 2007.

 

[Scarfman]

SANZAR to consider Argentina

Well, we all want the Argies in, so let's hope this brings something about.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Ru...c9da3d10f1a7397//SANZAR_to_consider_Argentina

Dubai - The rugby body representing New Zealand, Australia and South Africa has formed a working party that is examining the possibility of Argentina joining the Tri-Nations tournament.

Argentina have been seeking entry to an elite tournament but has so far been unsuccessful in its inquires toward joining Europe's Six Nations or the Tri-Nations.

The Pumas are ranked fourth in the world standings and finished third at the 2007 World Cup, but say they have been held back by their lack of regular topflight competition.

"The executive committee also considered a further report from Argentina and has asked the working party to perform further analysis on the viability of Argentina joining the Tri-Nations," SANZAR said on Wednesday.

SANZAR also said it was looking at expanding the Super 14 to include geographically based conferences.

 

[Lindommer]

My suggestion for a future Super competition is simple and modest:

1. South Africa, Australia and New Zealand to each have five franchises (15th franchise to go to Melbourne);
2. Each franchise to play their country franchises home AND away;
3. Each franchise to play foreign franchises home OR away;
4. Final series to include five or six teams over three weeks;
5. Super rugby to start in March and finish in September;
6. Some games to be broadcast on free-to-air-TV.
7. Some games to be played on Saturday or Sunday afternoons.

My suggestions for a future TriNations:

1. Argentina to be included (how they get their European-based professionals to return for matches in July-September is their problem);
2. Each country to play the other three countries home and away; that makes for six tests for each country and a total of 12 SANZAR tests each year.

Has that bastard O'Neill been reading my blogs again? : : :

 

[Moses]

A SIX-TEAM Super 14 final series next season is back on the agenda and Western Sydney, Gosford, Newcastle and Melbourne are set to fight it out to be the home of the fifth Australian franchise in an expanded 15-team Super tournament in 2011.

The other major development from the SANZAR meeting in Dubai on Wednesday is that South Africa is pushing hard for Argentina to be added to the Tri Nations from 2012.

A seven-hour meeting resolved that the preferred structure of the expanded Super competition, to be presented to the SANZAR broadcasters on June 30, will have three five-team conferences - in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. The location of the fifth team in the Australian conference is open to conjecture. Apart from calls for the new franchise to be based in Western Sydney, Gosford, Newcastle, Melbourne, the Gold Coast or even Japan, South Africa and New Zealand are also contemplating making bids. However, the logistics of a sixth South African or New Zealand team playing in the Australian conference will work against both countries. Instead, a fifth Australian team is likely to be added. Where the team is based could also be easily swayed by where the broadcasters believe is the best location.

A decision on the 15th franchise is scheduled to be made by the end of the year and any potential Australian side is expected to include Australians playing overseas, Pacific Islanders and league converts.

Australian Rugby Union chief executive and SANZAR delegate John O'Neill said from Dubai last night that the three nations had finally decided that expansion was the only path.

"The meeting resolved unanimously that the status quo of the Super 14 structure is not a viable option to present to the broadcasters. Expansion is," O'Neill said.

O'Neill added it was crucial that if the 15th team is based in Australia it is given the required backing.

"It is imperative that we learn the lessons of some of the mistakes which were made when the Western Force was created," O'Neill said. "There was a bit of gay abandon in the ways players were recruited for the Force. We would also be very careful that the existing four Australian franchises are not diminished in any way."

Australia will continue pushing hard for the Super finals series being expanded to six teams from next year. It was originally proposed to start this season, until South Africa changed its mind and refused to approve it. "It's on the agenda," O'Neill said. "It would make sense to us in 2010 to have a six-team final series. It would give us a taste of what it's like. In 2011 it will be the start of a new competition, but it is also a World Cup year.

"That will require some logistical manoeuvring to make sure that we get the expanded Super rugby and Tri Nations tournament out of the way in time for the World Cup in New Zealand. We wanted to have the six-team final in 2009, but it got knocked on the head."

Despite South Africa's campaign to have Argentina involved in the Tri Nations, the Pumas' inclusion is still a work in progress.

"The view of SANZAR is that Argentina being involved in Super rugby is not really viable, but in the Tri Nations it certainly is," O'Neill said. "SANZAR has decided to put more grunt into working with the Argentina union on getting better assurances that they can provide their best available team. We also need to find out what revenue generation can come out of including Argentina in a four-nations tournament."
SANZAR'S PLAN

■ Expansion to a Super 15 in 2011.

■ New team likely to come from Western Sydney, Gosford, Newcastle or Melbourne.

■ Australian players involved in overseas teams, Pacific Islanders and league converts to make up fifth Australian franchise.

■ Australia pushing for six-team finals series from next year.

■ Later start to Super season. Australia and New Zealand keen for round one to begin in early to mid March.

"There was a bit of gay abandon in the ways players were recruited for the Force. We would also be very careful that the existing four Australian franchises are not diminished in any way."

Surely this is a reference to Drew and Gits?

 

[TOCC]

Trinations
Bring in Argentina and revert the competition back to 2matches against each country, with Aus-NZ onselling there third bleidsloe to Japan or the US..

 

[formeropenside]

"There was a bit of gay abandon in the ways players were recruited for the Force. We would also be very careful that the existing four Australian franchises are not diminished in any way."

Surely this is a reference to Drew and Gits?

More likely in the raping of the Reds and Reds Academy wholesale. Gits and Mitchell were later additions. Oh...you mean like the boys are a little light in the loafers.

 

[Moses]

there was more than a little gay abandon in that pool scene shown last week where drew had his pink short shorts...

 

[Ash]

If they agree that the extra team is going to Australia, surely it's got to go to Melbourne. Going to the Gold Coast or Western Sydney would just be a joke. The only other place that could maybe have a chance is the Central Coast, but really, Melbourne to me is the logical choice.

Interesting on JO'N's desire for league players, returning players and PIs to prop up the new team. Nice dream, but damn expensive way to do it. Overseas players genearlly earn more, as do all good league players, and the top PI players are all overseas and thus also earning more. They should also target some Argie players if they intend on doing that.

JO'N would be better off:
- increasing the number of ARU approved maquee players to 3 - 4,
- bring in stricter laws on the marquee players, such as favouring Argie and PI players,
- at least double that number of marquee players be allowed in the new team for the first 5 - 6 years,
- inplementing a temporary NZ-style draft system to spread the current fringe players from all franchises to the new team, and
- throwing some targetted ARU cash at the aforementioned group of players to get some to move, but getting some targetted players only that would add to the team.

If they bring in a few decent Argie players then they can get some momentum for Argentina being added to the 3N, if it sadly hasn't happened by then.

If I recall correctly, the (effective) salary cap is what - $4.5 million per franchise? I think Tony Dempsey said something like that the ARU allows each franchise in Australia to pay its main squad of up to 33 players up to $4.5M from their coffers, not including ARU top up, and not including 3rd party sponsorship. My understanding is that the franchise can actually pay each player different salaries - i.e. they don't give each player ~$136k each, but there is a minimum amount each player must be paid, thus fringe squad members get less, but I bet non-ARU topped up starting players get a bit more. Marquee players are outside of the base $4.5M, correct?

The other obvious thing is to do what the AFL do, and give the new team a temporary increase in their salary pool.

 

[Moses]

Ash makes some good points, for a Queenslander. Stick the new team in Melbourne and sign Rocky as their captain

 

[Scarfman]

Bring back Crofty.