RWC Pool D - Wallabies vs Wales - Sunday 29 September 2019 @ 5.45pm

[Strewthcobber]

But it's only offside once the ball is out (at least, that's what Stu Barnes said), if he's offside when the ball is out surely he's not onside to start with?

?
You need to see where he is before the ball is out to see if he was onside. Genia took an age to pass the ball.

I don't think the broadcast showed a view where you could tell if he was ever onside or not

 

[Up the Guts]

I think we can argue the technicalities till daybreak. The pertinent point is that it should have been checked.

Oh 100%, but I bet we get hit with the "it was checked and was cleared." Isn't Ben Skeen the bloke from last year who had camera 24 or something 'with the angle you don't have?"

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah he was fucken awful. Foley has been turd at 10, we win that if White and To'omua start (which is fucked by the way. Our best 10 is a centre? Fuck me.)

In hindsight that’s easy to say. White was awful v Fiji and you’ve been one of the most vocal against starting To'omua at 10.

 

[gel]

The ball is out in every screen cap that's been posted so far. We need one where the ball is still in the ruck to tell if he's offside.

Must have been a AR call. Poite is looking the opposite direction and couldn't make the call.

the big issue is the jump in the camera angles... But here he is with the ball in hand just after he's lifted it. There's no way the Welsh dude was ever on side unless hes got better starts than Ben Johnson.

The real issue is not checking with a review. That's the real problem.

They watched a slow Mo video for a late tackle, until they could find fault, but never bothered to even have a look when it was clear that the guy was somehow miles ahead of his team mates.

(that's the first frame i could get after the jump in camera angles - sorry peeps

 

[KOB1987]

Oh 100%, but I bet we get hit with the "it was checked and was cleared." Isn't Ben Skeen the bloke from last year who had camera 24 or something 'with the angle you don't have?"

Don’t recall that one. But he was the bloke who infamously pulled back Speight’s try v the All Blacks a couple of years ago when DHP brushed Ben Smith’s shoulder about 10m behind the play.

 

[Gnostic]

The only thing that the commentary team got right all night was Hoiles saying the crackdown and very strict interpretation of the High tackle guidelines is the week 1 PUBLIC intervention by WR (World Rugby). If they had quietly pulled the referees panel aside and had a review of the directives a more moderate change probably would have been seen. Now they are coming out hard because they have no choice.

The raving of Horan and Kearns makes me long for the days of Fordham and even the endless trivia of Bray. What would be enlightening from this crew is if they are actually had some information and tried to bring some education and balance to the argument and ran a short piece on the decision making process of the High Tackle Protocol, WR (World Rugby) has the material freely available so they don't even have to do any work to present it. Heaven forbid they might get some understanding of how the decisions are made themselves. A flow chart might however be beyond their comprehension though.

The single biggest point from this game and why I tipped Wales to win was the changes at 9 and 10. Consistency in selection is a big factor in the World Cup runs of the best Australian sides, 91, 99 and 03. Considering the research published and discussed here about the results gained from selection consistency I have to say this was a massive mistake from Cheika and Co. Genia played well, but White was better when he came on and Foley was very poor and showed the rustiness of a player who hasn't played for quite some time and to me that was the difference.

 

[Up the Guts]

?
You need to see where he is before the ball is out to see if he was onside. Genia took an age to pass the ball.

I don't think the broadcast showed a view where you could tell if he was ever onside or not

But, given that you can't move forward until the ball is out (according to Foxsports, at least), at what point is the ball out and at what point does the halfback just have his hands on the ball? Clearly the ball is out in that screencap and he's way beyond last feet, if we take that as the point where the ball is declared 'out' then isn't he offside?

 

[Strewthcobber]

 

[Bobas]

Savea shoulder to shoulder and not 10m but not close either.

 

[Strewthcobber]

But, given that you can't move forward until the ball is out (according to Foxsports, at least), at what point is the ball out and at what point does the halfback just have his hands on the ball? Clearly the ball is out in that screencap and he's way beyond last feet, if we take that as the point where the ball is declared 'out' then isn't he offside?

You can't know if that's where the ball is out from the screen cap. The other view cut too late to tell. This overhead view tells a pretty different story

 

[KOB1987]

Savea shoulder to shoulder and not 10m but not close either.

Sorry my bad

 

[Up the Guts]

You can't know if that's where the ball is out from the screen cap. The other view cut too late to tell. This overhead view tells a pretty different story

Are you saying the ball is out in your first overhead, or are his hands just on the ball? Looks like it's under Pocock's arse.

 

[molman]

Why?

He had some shit kicks, does that kill a 10 performance? Generally his performance was on par with the rest of the starting crew, I can't hold him responsible on his own.

I did definitely like both White and To'omua.

Not the same thing though.

Some others have already answered this, but it wasn't just his kicks. Passing, lost ball, plays all seemed an issue. Look, don't get me wrong, I don't buy into the Foley is terrible narrative, in fact I think he really as been our best of limited 10 options in recent years but in this game he really seemed well off his best and unfortunately hasn't seemed to get his groove back over the last year or so. I was hoping he'd have a blinder as I'm not convinced CLL (a much as I also like him as a player) has been allround better.

I have lots and lots of thoughts about this game. Kerevi and his insane penalty. Our slow start which let Wales set the tempo. Our utter dominance from about the 25 minute mark on. Our lack of composure in the final 10 minutes where we moved away from our dominant running game.

But one particular thing I’d like to mention: I saw a quick shot of Foley on the bench after being hooked and he looked shattered. Tears in his eyes. I really worry that his confidence is genuinely shot.

Foley definetely looked like he'd lost it in the head department. He knew he'd had a poor game and in some ways that was his shot back into a starting team. I'm hoping that much like DHP's poor showing with SA he gets a chance to right this wrong in another game even for his own sake.

 

[gel]

From the overhead view he is offside.

He has already taken a step ahead of his team mates when the ball is still in, and he is two steps ahead once the ball is out.

 

[Gnostic]

?

You need to see where he is before the ball is out to see if he was onside. Genia took an age to pass the ball.



I don't think the broadcast showed a view where you could tell if he was ever onside or not

This is sot on. Old habits and he was getting targeted for it.

Just like Beale running sideways then passing forward to LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto), I understand the whinge that the ball was "flat", but the situation and the 50:50 call was brought about by the penchant of Beale to crab and crowd his outside players. In a decade as a pro player he has never unlearnt this and that comes from his belief that he can run around people as he did as a school boy and rarely has as a pro player.

Wales did nothing exciting, Gatland's Wales never has, but they have strengthened their defence and they execute their skills well. The Wallabies play very well in patches for 10-25 minutes in a game and that is it. The defence still leaks tries on the wings, no as bad as last year, but still a lot of easy metres are given up. Finally one thing that sets the Wallabies apart from all their oppositions, the back three excepting Koriobete is relatively slow.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Are you saying the ball is out in your first overhead, or are his hands just on the ball? Looks like it's under Pocock's arse.

It's hard to tell, but I think he's probably already picked the ball off the ground in the top screenshot. Definately in the second one

 

[KOB1987]

You can't know if that's where the ball is out from the screen cap. The other view cut too late to tell. This overhead view tells a pretty different story

Yep not even close to onside. The world wants to know why it wasn’t checked. Except for welsh people.

 

[Up the Guts]

It's hard to tell, but I think he's probably already picked the ball off the ground in the top screenshot. Definately in the second one

I think it's off the ground but is that what is considered 'out' or is it until it's clear of the ruck? Presumably, if it was buried in the ruck and he had to reach in and yank it out it would be off the ground but not 'out'.

 

[Up the Guts]

Would be interesting to go through and list a combined team of the match. Wales in the halves, AWJ, maybe the 6 and 7 but Poey and Hooper were pretty good as well. Think the Wallabies had them in the rest of it. Just shows the difference converting opportunities makes.

 

[ACR]

Poey was granite for us. Secured rucks, carried strongly, DIDN'T.FUCK.UP. Hoops was also fantastic.

It's one thing to push for more dynamic runners, but when they're being picked up and mauled then it makes me a lot more comfortable when Hockock is trucking it up.

Hmm...yeah.. There are quite a few games lately where I swear he is just a very average player. Particularly where the ref protects the hell out of the attacking ruck, like Poite did/does. I haven't seen him impose himself over a game in a LONG time. (don't watch Brumbies much). The game just isn't the same for a fetcher 7 as it used to be.

9 carries for 3 metres, 10 tackles (2 missed). Had 1 very good try assist. Got around the park. Pretty standard.