Rugby Scrums

[Lightblue]

What’s everyone thoughts on the rugby scrum?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

 

[Lightblue]

They used to be a way of restarting play and where the backs have a crack at their opposite backs.. now 90% of the time they are just some just Mickey Mouse penalty… a bore and blight on the game. Especially when the ball is at the locks feet and the half doesn’t pass but waits for the Mickey Mouse penalty from the ref who more often than not doesn’t insist he pass the ball..

 

[Wilson]

... now 90% of the time they are just some just Mickey Mouse penalty…

Got some stats to back that up?

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

What’s everyone thoughts on the rugby scrum?

I think they can be an important and spectacular part of the game. If all the gamesmanship BS is taken out of the equation.

 

[Adam84]

I enjoy amateur/club level scrums, because they are played as they were intended; to provide a competitive means to restart play.

What exists at test level is now a platform to slow the game and force a penalty.

 

[Members Section]

I like them, how good is it when your team wins one!

How ever the resets are way too slow

 

[Froggy]

I am a fan of scrums, but two problems. Endless re-sets, and the inability of refs to see who is at fault when they go down. We need refs to be better educated on the mysteries of the front row (particularly AR's, as they are often making the call) and they have to understand that if one side gains an advantage in a scrum, that doesn't mean that side wins the penalty from every scrum that collapses from then on.

 

[Rob42]

I am a fan of scrums, but two problems. Endless re-sets, and the inability of refs to see who is at fault when they go down. We need refs to be better educated on the mysteries of the front row (particularly AR's, as they are often making the call) and they have to understand that if one side gains an advantage in a scrum, that doesn't mean that side wins the penalty from every scrum that collapses from then on.

Fair points, but is it realistic to think any ref will be able to rule correctly on scrums 100% of the time? Black arts and all that. How would you improve their accuracy. Keen to know for my own watching as well.

 

[RugbyReg]

I am a fan of scrums, but two problems. Endless re-sets, and the inability of refs to see who is at fault when they go down. We need refs to be better educated on the mysteries of the front row (particularly AR's, as they are often making the call) and they have to understand that if one side gains an advantage in a scrum, that doesn't mean that side wins the penalty from every scrum that collapses from then on.

I agree with that and add my thought bubble is that we remove taking the scrum as an option from a penalty.

 

[Wilson]

I agree with that and add my thought bubble is that we remove taking the scrum as an option from a penalty.

MLR have been trialing a law similar to this:

Referees will work with stricter protocols that will limit the number of scrums to two per incident – the original plus one reset for a collapse, penalty, or freekick.

I haven't watched enough of it to know how it's gone but I like the intent around it. Scrumagging just to draw a yellow has become a bit of an issue the last few years and doesn't really make sense when the player sent off is usually not trying to offend, they're just not capable of holding the pressure being put on them. Anything to limit that seems like a good idea.

Along that line I wouldn't mind also seeing the set of scrum infringements reviewed, more of them should arguably start at the free kick level like early engagement and only become penalties when they're repeated.

 

[Lightblue]

Shots for goal from a scrum penalty are unfair. A quick tap should be the rule from a scrum infringement but also half should be made to play the ball if it is at the locks feet. And clock stops till half feeds the ball.

 

[Dan54]

I wonder if scrums could be a little better if the props had to have a brake foot similar to hookers, but maybe hold it there. Will take away the ability for the props to get real low I think, which just could lead to less collapses. I know there would be an argument that you can't hold a brake foot when they get a shove going forward, but would be interesting to see how it went.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

MLR have been trialing a law similar to this:


I haven't watched enough of it to know how it's gone but I like the intent around it. Scrumagging just to draw a yellow has become a bit of an issue the last few years and doesn't really make sense when the player sent off is usually not trying to offend, they're just not capable of holding the pressure being put on them. Anything to limit that seems like a good idea.

Along that line I wouldn't mind also seeing the set of scrum infringements reviewed, more of them should arguably start at the free kick level like early engagement and only become penalties when they're repeated.

I've seen it in action over the past two seasons and I think it's worked well. Puts emphasis on getting it right as you only have one reset available.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I wonder if scrums could be a little better if the props had to have a brake foot similar to hookers, but maybe hold it there. Will take away the ability for the props to get real low I think, which just could lead to less collapses. I know there would be an argument that you can't hold a brake foot when they get a shove going forward, but would be interesting to see how it went.

Certainly would be worth looking at whether it works. Would remove some of the inherit instability around performing the hit at such a low position.

 

[KevinO]

The issues with Scrums is the players in the front row and now just too strong. You can't expect a team to be able to hook the ball when the opposition applies force, 3 v 2 push. The Scrum half can't try and feed straight as they would never win the ball back. I don't know how you find a solution. The hooker needs to get a fair chance to strike the ball without the scrum going backwards immediately. Only thing I can think of is the push can't start until the ball has been struck and the hookers foot returned to the ground, but the advantage to the feeding team would huge and become like a league scrum.

Club level is more about the dark crafts, then just power. It's why club scrums are easier to ref and complete, I was never the biggest prop so I was always boring in low and trying to get my opposite to drop.

I like the automatic conversion for under the post in the USA trail laws.

 

[PhilClinton]

Shots for goal from a scrum penalty are unfair. A quick tap should be the rule from a scrum infringement but also half should be made to play the ball if it is at the locks feet. And clock stops till half feeds the ball.

Similar to the short-arm infringement only off scrums which was trialled back in 2008/09. It would also solve a few problems, people are complaining the big fellas aren't getting puffed enough these days. If all the scrum and lineout infringement restarts were short arms, there would be more ball in play.

I also don't like players getting yellow carded for scrum infringements, unless of course it specifically is endangering someone. It's essentially giving players a yellow card for their opposition being better than them. In that case, we may as well start yellow carding the hooker who misses their throws, or the player who misses 6 tackles (granted we'd want them pulled off the field anyway).

 

[KevinO]

I also don't like players getting yellow carded for scrum infringements, unless of course it specifically is endangering someone. It's essentially giving players a yellow card for their opposition being better than them. In that case, we may as well start yellow carding the hooker who misses their throws, or the player who misses 6 tackles (granted we'd want them pulled off the field anyway).

It is pretty harsh when the scrum getting smashed is made up of 8 players, only the props are going to get the card.

 

[Dan54]

It is pretty harsh when the scrum getting smashed is made up of 8 players, only the props are going to get the card.

Yep mate, scrummimng is so much about all 8 players ,that is something that annoys me somewhat.

 

[Braveheart81]

Maybe a good option would be that if a scrum stays legal through being pushed back 5m then there can't be a penalty. That means pushover tries are still possible but a heavily outclassed scrum just needs to stay straight for 5m to avoid getting penalised.

It's not a good spectacle when a heavily outclassed scrum draws a penalty every time and has a huge impact on the outcome of the game.