Refereeing decisions

[molman]

19.12c only applies during "set". Once the ball is in the scrum we are in a different part of the laws

He's getting penalized under

AR sees that his feet are way behind his hips at engage - ie not in a position to keep the scrum up, and he never chases his feet up to a point where the scrum is stable.

The complicating thing is Genge is definitely pulling down, but is in a much better body shape while doing it. If Robbo had a similar shape, the scrum wouldn't collapse, or Genge would be penalised for pulling it down. AR's view is Robbo's is the first offense

I've said it before, but what all the scrum discussions bring me back to is a failing in the way scrums are presented to the Rugby viewing public. Camera angles are often poor with blind sides, camera angles cutting, commentators not helping and referees who could be brought in more with their use of language which probably could be enhanced for more clarity.

I haven't rewatched, but I assumed it was due to Robertson going long. That said, I do tend to agree with @Brumby Runner that Genges actions are pretty overt.

 

[Rebel man]

I've said it before, but what all the scrum discussions bring me back to is a failing in the way scrums are presented to the Rugby viewing public. Camera angles are often poor with blind sides, camera angles cutting, commentators not helping and referees who could be brought in more with their use of language which probably could be enhanced for more clarity.

I haven't rewatched, but I assumed it was due to Robertson going long. That said, I do tend to agree with @Brumby Runner that Genges actions are pretty overt.

He is intentionally dragging it down right in front of the AR

 

[Strewthcobber]

I've said it before, but what all the scrum discussions bring me back to is a failing in the way scrums are presented to the Rugby viewing public. Camera angles are often poor with blind sides, camera angles cutting, commentators not helping and referees who could be brought in more with their use of language which probably could be enhanced for more clarity.

I haven't rewatched, but I assumed it was due to Robertson going long. That said, I do tend to agree with @Brumby Runner that Genges actions are pretty overt.

I just think no-one involved in rugby broadcasts find it interesting enough to do better, and that includes all commentators, even ones that used to play front row in World Cup winning Australian teams.

If not even they care, why would any viewers?

We romanticize it as a powerful battle between two huge packs, when it's mostly refs deciding between who has the wrong leg angle versus which way an elbow is pointing.

 

[molman]

I just think no-one involved in rugby broadcasts find it interesting enough to do better, and that includes all commentators, even ones that used to play front row in World Cup winning Australian teams.

If not even they care, why would any viewers?

We romanticize it as a powerful battle between two huge packs, when it's mostly refs deciding between who has the wrong leg angle versus which way an elbow is pointing.

I think yes, viewers would care if you presented it properly. It's much more engaging than some of the prosaic things people engage with on the internet these days. I know a lot of South Africans who would care. At the very least I'd love to see some ex-referees on the commentating panels.

Personally, I still feel we are getting too many penalties called on scrums in general. I'm not sure what the running stats would be and I do concede that it looks to have improved some with refs now calling for the ball to be played, but it's still occurring more often than it feels like it should be for what is a mechanisim to return the ball to play. In part because the value of the penalty is so much higher than playing to get the ball back into play. As such we have all these shenanigans going on, like Genge having watched tape or had a wisper in the ear and knowing he has a good chance to pull Robertson down there. Even dominate scrums are sometimes questionable if they are driving cleanly forward half the time and not wheeling, driving up, driving in etc.

 

[Tomthumb]

So if World Rugby aren’t going to make a clarification, I guess we are to assume that the refs call was correct and that head and neck contact in rucks is now legal

Now with the President set, do we think coaches will start teaching players to target heads and necks to affect a clean out and use this supposedly correct decision as a precedent