Refereeing decisions

[Strewthcobber]

Firstly: are we happy in general about the refs choice to give an on-field yellow? To my mind, that was an always illegal action that comfortably met the threshold of on field red, without need for the 3-4 minutes of alternative angles and such that line ball calls take. It's U20s so leeway has to be given, but surely the lead officials should be empowered to give them when the criteria is met.

Just cause rugby likes to be complicated, the threshold for this is "deliberate" act of foul play, not "always illegal" (mitigation for cards etc).

I think it was reckless, but possibly not deliberate, so ref got it right under the current guidelines

 

[Ignoto]

Unfortunately it needs 75% to vote for it and there doesn't seem to be any interest in the North.

You watch, if the B&IL tour gets decided by a game where an early red card is given and the B&IL lose, it'll be changed a day later.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Australia's dominance of World Rugby decision-making continues, with scrum option from free-kick removed, and NZ's dominance proven with the 20min red card continuing to be trialled.

Not sure which evil SH nations are responsible for the banning of crocodile roll, and the anti-French "players have to retreat after a kick" also passing.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

WR (World Rugby) media release wrt the above:

Rugby fan-focused law changes confirmed | World Rugby

The largest reimagination of rugby’s entertainment value continues to progress with the World Rugby Council approving a package of law amendments that will come into effect from 1 July, 2024.

www.world.rugby

Gotta say I never expected the FK scrum option to go & was doubtful about the 20 minute RC trial continuing.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Will be very interesting to see the outcome of this one.....

Tackle/ruck/breakdown: A major review of the breakdown through the lens of spectacle and safety – e.g. the impact of contesting the ball on the floor, the practice of jackaling as opposed to an upright driving game.

 

[Wilson]

Part of that is seeing the 20 minute red card trial rolled out to more comps (WXV, the Pacific Nations Cup and U20 Championship and Trophy) and some interesting changes to the judiciary and sanction process:

Under the trial, clearly defined automatic bans will be applied for red cards involving foul play, promoting consistency of outcomes that are easier to understand while not compromising on player welfare:

• Foul play – Automatic two weeks: where a player has attempted to affect a legal rugby action and/or has committed a reckless action but has made minor errors such as in technique or timing
• Aggravated foul play – Automatic four weeks: where a player has affected a highly reckless action and/or a non-legal rugby action (tucked arm, no attempt to wrap, driving tackle)

A Sanction Committee comprising members with rugby experience will calibrate all red card sanctions from a round/weekend of matches. No mitigation will be applied in the automatic sanction scenarios, creating an environment of consistency, while making the process easier for players and fans to understand.

Simplified red card sanction process to be trialled at World Rugby competitions in 2024 | World Rugby

World Rugby has announced further details of a revised red card sanction process trial featuring automatic off-field sanctions for players shown red cards.

www.world.rugby

 

[Derpus]

Kiwis won't be happy with the automatic four week ban for the tucked arm rule. That's every loose forward they have banned, every week.

 

[liquor box]

I have been getting frustrated at time wasting while waiting for the shot clock for conversions or penalties to run down.

Last night Mackenzie was set up and ready to kick and then just stood there watching the clock.

Surely Law 9 - Foul Play/Unfair Play 7d Waste time should come into play? https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9

I can understand why Mackenzie did this, it is smart play but looks terrible, it would look better if he took his time setting the ball on the tee and lining up.


Can this time wasting be sanctioned?

 

[Strewthcobber]

I have been getting frustrated at time wasting while waiting for the shot clock for conversions or penalties to run down.

Last night Mackenzie was set up and ready to kick and then just stood there watching the clock.

Surely Law 9 - Foul Play/Unfair Play 7d Waste time should come into play? https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/law/9

I can understand why Mackenzie did this, it is smart play but looks terrible, it would look better if he took his time setting the ball on the tee and lining up.


Can this time wasting be sanctioned?

Luke Pearce was enforcing (or at least was hurrying the kicker up) this earlier in the year, but I reckon he must have got told off, because he's stopped doing it.

I also think conversions will be 60s, not 90s, in the next round of law changes

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

As soon as you say the kicker has "x" amount of time to take the shot, surely you can't then hurry them up. Maybe make the time allowed relative to how wide of the posts e.g. within 10m of an upright you get 30 seconds, within the tramlines 90 seconds & elsewhere 60 seconds?

 

[Wilson]

Personally I don't really have any issue with the kicker using their allotted time to take the kick. The laws now give them a set amount of time to take a kick so I don't see how it would be fair to call anything within that time wasting. It's a much better situation then in the past where it was all up to referees discretion.

If it's a problem that players are using it to run the clock in tight games and close out the contest (which they should be and are doing under the current laws) then the answer is not to hand out discretionary penalties for time wasting, it's to stop the clock when a try is awarded and not restart it until the ball has been kicked off. It arguably should be that way for conversions anyway, given the ball is not "in play" again until the kick off.

 

[liquor box]

Personally I don't really have any issue with the kicker using their allotted time to take the kick. The laws now give them a set amount of time to take a kick so I don't see how it would be fair to call anything within that time wasting. It's a much better situation then in the past where it was all up to referees discretion.

If it's a problem that players are using it to run the clock in tight games and close out the contest (which they should be and are doing under the current laws) then the answer is not to hand out discretionary penalties for time wasting, it's to stop the clock when a try is awarded and not restart it until the ball has been kicked off. It arguably should be that way for conversions anyway, given the ball is not "in play" again until the kick off.

The time is a maximum, not a minimum time.

I am all for stopping the clock throughout the entire game not just the end of a close game.

I would particularly like it stopped for scrum resets, stop time until the ball is out of the scrum.

 

[Braveheart81]

I would particularly like it stopped for scrum resets, stop time until the ball is out of the scrum.

This is what I have wanted for ages.

A big part of the issue is perception so fix the perception.

Arguably the goal kicking change has somewhat backfired. The perception was that too much time is lost to kicking for goal but now that we've put a timer up this only becomes more clear how long it takes off the clock and also makes it obvious when a kicker is using up all their time on purpose.

 

[Rob42]

This is what I have wanted for ages.

A big part of the issue is perception so fix the perception.

Arguably the goal kicking change has somewhat backfired. The perception was that too much time is lost to kicking for goal but now that we've put a timer up this only becomes more clear how long it takes off the clock and also makes it obvious when a kicker is using up all their time on purpose.

I'd agree with stopping the clock for scrums in the last 10 minutes, but if done throughout the game, it would make a low-quality game, with too much dropped ball (e.g. most games at Allianz), last for about 3 hours. And if you stop the clock, it gives the forwards an excuse to stop for longer and take a breather, slowing everything down further.

 

[Braveheart81]

I'd agree with stopping the clock for scrums in the last 10 minutes, but if done throughout the game, it would make a low-quality game, with too much dropped ball (e.g. most games at Allianz), last for about 3 hours. And if you stop the clock, it gives the forwards an excuse to stop for longer and take a breather, slowing everything down further.

I'm saying for any resets. Such that each scrum takes the same amount of time and if the referee wants to reset it rather than call a penalty then it doesn't take additional time off the clock.

 

[liquor box]

I'd agree with stopping the clock for scrums in the last 10 minutes, but if done throughout the game, it would make a low-quality game, with too much dropped ball (e.g. most games at Allianz), last for about 3 hours. And if you stop the clock, it gives the forwards an excuse to stop for longer and take a breather, slowing everything down further.

That sounds good, until your team loses because time was wasted with 10 minutes and a second to go.

I think the laws should apply for all of the game, or not at all.

If I had my way games would go longer as I would reset the clock when advantage is not gained and you go back to the penalty.

 

[Rob42]

That sounds good, until your team loses because time was wasted with 10 minutes and a second to go.

I think the laws should apply for all of the game, or not at all.

If I had my way games would go longer as I would reset the clock when advantage is not gained and you go back to the penalty.

Complex game, resetting the clock every few minutes.