Reds 2015

[USARugger]

I think he is close to the best.

I wonder what would have happened if he was not U20 captain and had started in the Wallaby team when Pocock got injured?

He brought some real mongrel back into to his game during the later stages of the NRC, made me smile - even if some of it was a little less than legal.

Liam's always been incredibly skillful and reminds of Pocock with how comfortable he is transitioning from tackle to pilfer, but I think he's needed that "edge" back in his game for a while. Let's hope he has a reason to stay a bit pissed off until February.

 

[domo]

^ makes me so happy. In my opinion anybody holding onto someone on the ground, or holding someone back at a ruck deserves a punch in the face, surely its the most effective way to make them let go. Refs should penalise the cynical play, not the other guy. I remember Simmons getting a yellow for something similar.. outrageous

 

[Train Without a Station]

Are you kidding? Liam needs to pull his head in after that. The guy attempts to clean out and hangs on to his jersey for what I can count as about 2 seconds in a slow GIF file.

I agree with the sentiment but in this particular case it's a massive overreaction.

 

[domo]

No doubt an overreaction. Glorious nonetheless

 

[USARugger]

Don't see it that way at all.

He comes in with a horrendous attempt at a gator-roll clean out and instead of just not letting go quickly, reaches up again with his second hand and completely obstructs Liam from playing the ball - which he was in a great position to do.

It was an intentional attempt to obstruct Liam from playing his role for his own team.

That said, Liam is way out of bounds in terms of the laws of the game here, without a doubt.

I don't condone striking in the game but if there's any time that players "deserve" it, it's when they hold back at the ruck or play men without the ball.

This also occured very late in the Grand Final, where the Spirit had been playing Liam off the ball like this for more or less the entire match leading up to this. The officials ignored it for good reason I think.

My perspective may be biased from playing 7 for so long and having this done to me dozens of times every season.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Yes USARugger I've most played 7 too. Those opposition players are mean, I get it.

It was a light attempt at baiting. Liam apparently couldn't wait to take it. I'd be blowing up if that was in a Red jersey and it cost points or a player, and rightly it would.

 

[USARugger]

Yes USARugger I've most played 7 too. Those opposition players are mean, I get it.

It was a light attempt at baiting. Liam apparently couldn't wait to take it. I'd be blowing up if that was in a Red jersey and it cost points or a player, and rightly it would.

It was after 65+ minutes of getting played off the ball. If it was a Super Rugby match someone from Spirit would have caught a card for it at that point.

No need for the condescending tone.

 

[Braveheart81]

The question of whether someone deserves to be hit and whether the player should hit them often don't have the same answer.

If you end up with a yellow card, which is entirely the likely outcome if you hit someone in the face, you've hardly done your team a favour despite the fact that the other player probably deserved it.

The challenge for Gill in this situation is to hit the player away without doing anything that could result in a yellow card if it was reviewed by the TMO.

Of course you want to get rid of the cynical play, but if the cynical play is followed up by a punch in the head, the punch in the head will always be the issue that is penalised.

 

[Train Without a Station]

In the scale of obstructing players, that is on the lower end as well.

 

[USARugger]

Of course you want to get rid of the cynical play, but if the cynical play is followed up by a punch in the head, the punch in the head will always be the issue that is penalised.

At the same time I'd like to see this type of play (particularly holding back at the ruck - All Blacks have mastered this one) punished far, far more severely than it currently is.

As it is the worst case scenario for the playing initially breaking the laws of the gaming and ultimately ruining the spectacle for the fans takes on much less risk through a calculated action outside the laws of the game than what can occur to the player who may react to being held back.

 

[Tip]

The only way to properly draw the referee's attention to being held back at the ruck, is to start swinging.

There's nothing wrong with a massive forearm on someone's face when they're holding you back, clocking them in the face with a closed fist is a completely different kettle of fish.

Australia, and QLD need mongrel like this. I dream of the day that Aus produces a Bakkies Botha enforcer that strikes fear into opposition hearts and heads. Mongrel is what we're missing. The French out mongrelled us on the weekend and look what happened.

Striking an opponent with your forearm when being held is pretty much fair game. I recall an Aus v SA game last year that this incident happened in the leadup to a try/ penalty and the referee blew in favour of the man being held back.

 

[Wilson]

I see this as more or less identical to the Moore-quirk incident earlier this year, I thought it should have been a card then and I don't see this as being any different.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I see this as more or less identical to the Moore-quirk incident earlier this year, I thought it should have been a card then and I don't see this as being any different.

The hit or the hold?

 

[Scrubber2050]

He brought some real mongrel back into to his game during the later stages of the NRC, made me smile - even if some of it was a little less than legal.

Liam's always been incredibly skillful and reminds of Pocock with how comfortable he is transitioning from tackle to pilfer, but I think he's needed that "edge" back in his game for a while. Let's hope he has a reason to stay a bit pissed off until February.

SIMPLE: Tackle is above horizontal - should be rubbed out 4 to 6 weeks

 

[Wilson]

The hit or the hold?

Sorry, should have been clearer, I see the punch as an automatic card, in both situations.

 

[Tip]

It's really simple for the IRB. Holding someone off the ball is a professional foul. Which should lead to a yellow card.

All the IRB has to do is immediately card someone who holds someone off the ball for more than say, 2 or 3 seconds. Don't card the guy that hit him, he deserved to be hit. When you hold someone off the ball in a contact sport, you know there's a decent chance of a physical reaction and retaliation.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I understand your consistent black and white view because these types of things clearly are black and white.

Me personally, I didn't feel the Moore incident warranted a card as he basically showed restraint to throw a jab in the body more as a symbolic gesture to try and get him to release than to cause harm. But, if you throw a punch, you put yourself in the position to be carded and can't say you were hard done by.

 

[Train Without a Station]

It's really simple for the IRB. Holding someone off the ball is a professional foul. Which should lead to a yellow card.

All the IRB has to do is immediately card someone who holds someone off the ball for more than say, 2 or 3 seconds. Don't card the guy that hit him, he deserved to be hit. When you hold someone off the ball in a contact sport, you know there's a decent chance of a physical reaction and retaliation.

It's really simple, that striking is foul play, holding is closer to obstruction and that striking is the worse of the two offences.

 

[Wilson]

Yeah that's more or less it, for mine punching has no place in the game and there is very little excuse for it (maybe in reaction to a bight/eye gouge or choke) so any hit warrants time in the bin. There are more then enough ways to hurt someone legally, no need to punch.

 

[Tomikin]

The question of whether someone deserves to be hit and whether the player should hit them often don't have the same answer.

If you end up with a yellow card, which is entirely the likely outcome if you hit someone in the face, you've hardly done your team a favour despite the fact that the other player probably deserved it.

The challenge for Gill in this situation is to hit the player away without doing anything that could result in a yellow card if it was reviewed by the TMO.

Of course you want to get rid of the cynical play, but if the cynical play is followed up by a punch in the head, the punch in the head will always be the issue that is penalised.

Except if it's Steven Moore he can punch away