Rebels force merge

[Shiggins]

Don't panic, no news here. I was just thinking why would it be like if this happened. With the rebels coming into the competition it has allowed more Australian players game time. After making a 23 man squad a lot of very good backrowers would be looking for a new gig. However there would be a pretty handy team that would compete very well

1 . Pek
2. Charles
3. Faulkner
4. Neville/jones
5. Pyle
6. MMM
7. Hodgson
8. Higgers
9. Mathewson
10. JOC (James O'Connor)
11. vuna
12. Godwin
13. Cummins
14. Mafi
15. Beale

16. Teesman
17. Manu/ weeks
18. Alcock/cottrell
19. Brown/Benny
20. Wykes
21. Phipps
22. Inman/kingi

Everyone pick your 23. You can only include 1 foreign player. I chose Mathewson. Only choose 1 because there are enough Aussie players to cover the numbers. I think hooker lacks depth and hopefully someone like Hansen gets a gig with the rebels or something soon. He deserves to be starting in an Australian franchise and is as good as GED.

 

[RoffsChoice]

1. Cowan
2. Charles
3. Faulkner
4. Pyle
5. MMM
6. Cottrell
7. Alcock
8. McCalman
9. Burgess
10. O'Connor
11. Kingi
12. Godwin
13. Inman
14. Vuna
15. Mafi

16. Robinson
17. Hendersen
18. Jones
19. Higgenbotham
20. Phipps
21. Mitchell
22. Cummins

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

1 Cowan
2 Charles
3 Faulkner
4 Pyle
5 MMM
6 Higgers
7 Alcock
8 McCalman
9 Burgess
10 JOC (James O'Connor)
11 Cummins
12 Godwin
13 Inman
14 Vuna
15 Mafi

16 Robinson
17 Weekes (henderson is done after this year)
18 Manu
19 Jones
20 Cottrell
21 Kingi
22 Mitchell
23 Toupo (really like his pace and power)

quite impressive at how good a side that would actually be.

 

[Bowside]

1 Cowan
2 Charles
3 Faulkner
4 Pyle
5 MMM
6 Cottrell
7 Alcock
8 Higgers
9 Mathewson
10 Ebersohn
11 Mafi
12 Godwin
13 Cummins
14 JOC (James O'Connor)
15 Beale

16. Whittaker
17. Manu
18. Neville
19. Jones/Brown
20. Hodgeson
21. Phipps
22. Woodward/Inman/Vuna

Pretty decent team. Still short a genuine flyhalf who isn't a foreigner. Maybe Roberts might be the one, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Shiggins]

I think Beale would have to be at 15. He was one of the best of not the best in the world at one stage. Now he is playing other positions and not as well and Dagg has taken over. Beale needs to go back to 15 and stay there. He is way to good at 15.

 

[Lindommer]

I can't work out from the title if "force" is a noun or a verb. Makes a lotta difference.

 

[Shiggins]

I can't work out from the title if "force" is a noun or a verb. Makes a lotta difference.

Lol. Noun. Besides the rebels couldn't force anything ATM. Lol.

 

[Shiggins]

It defiantly shows that we would have a very strong competitor team on paper. If I was a kiwi or saffer and Australia went back too 4 sides I would be pissed off. It's like an unfair advantage.

 

[suckerforred]

It defiantly shows that we would have a very strong competitor team on paper. If I was a kiwi or saffer and Australia went back too 4 sides I would be pissed off. It's like an unfair advantage.

Or just evening things up since they are always telling us that our conference is the weekest.....

 

[KevinO]

Or just evening things up since they are always telling us that our conference is the weekest...

The whole conference system goes out the door, at the same time one set of fans could walk away from the game for ever not having a team based in there city anymore. I go to 9 or 10 games a year and if Melbourne didn't have a team that would change to ZERO.

 

[Rassie]

Or just evening things up since they are always telling us that our conference is the weekest...

We have the Lions who gave some of their other players the unions but are on tour in Europe and the US. They have a Vodacom team playing Vodacom Cup which is third stringers. The Kings got basically none of their players.

So if we go back to four then we sit with
Bulls
Sharks
Cheetahs
Stormers

Then we have the Kings players to divide up between the 4 Franchises making our current squads even stronger and bigger depth.

Let me show you how we shoot ourselves in the foot by letting a certain union attract players then cast them out after they used and abused them for a couple of years.

15 Clayton Blommetjies, 14 Vainon Willis, 13 Piet Lindeque, 12 Handre Pollard, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Willie du Plessis, 9 Danie Faasen, 8 Jono Ross (Captain), 7 Jacques Verwey, 6 Shaun Adendorff, 5 Marvin Orie, 4 Mike Williams, 3 Basil Short, 2 Mbongeni Mbonambi, 1 Juan Schoeman.

Thats a Varsity cup team. Guys who did not make the Bulls Vodacom squad
Those name in bold are U/20 players who won the JWC.

Props
Allan Dell
Ollie Kebble
Steven Kitshoff
Nicolaas van Dyk

Hookers
Mark Pretorius
Jason Thomas

Locks
Ruan Botha
Marvin Orie
Braam Steyn
Paul Willemse

Loose forwards
Shaun Adendorff
Fabian Booysen
Pieter-Steph du Toit
Khaya Majola
Wiaan Liebenberg (c)

Half backs
Abrie Griesel
Vian van der Watt

Fly halfs
Tony Jantjies
Handrè Pollard

Centres
Patrick Howard
Paul Jordaan
Jan Serfontein
William Small-Smith

Wings
Travis Ismael
Tshotso Mbovane
Raymond Rhule

Full backs
Dillyn Leyds
Marais Schmidt


All signed and hogged by the Bulls. If we really spread our player pool like New Zealand did we would far more competitive and stronger with all our teams. The Kings could have been much stronger.

 

[daz]

No need to go down the path of comparing a rugby team management style to kiddie crimes.

Wording in the above post has been altered and some friendly advice given. Moving on, now.

 

[Bardon]

There are some decent teams being posted but they assume that all the 1st choice players would stick around. With a merger staff at all levels would have to be rationalized. Players would leave for a number of reasons including but not limited to:

- If you're going to play for a new team then why not look further afield
- Not wanting to live where ever the merged team is based
- European/Japanese clubs see it as a good opportunity to cheery pick players who are uncertain about their future
- Particular coach/coaches that a player get on with are leaving
- Player feel no affinity with the new team
- Players who felt they were part of something special in terms of establishing a franchise feel cheated
- Personal disputes that occur between players as the new playing group try to establish a pecking order
- Being ousted from the leadership group and feeling excluded

ON top of that there would be probably be upwards of half of squad of S15 players who've been let go, not to mention coaches and backroom staff. The fan base would probably be smaller than before. Unless one franchise was simply absorbing the resources of the other you've got a new franchise that has to build their support base from a lower level. Certainly not all fans would just make the switch.

It's certainly a fun exercise to perform here on the forum, but in practice it would probably be a hugely damaging blow to the development of Aus rugby. If all 5 franchises are going in 10 years time I would expect the Aus conference as a whole to be more competitive in Super rugby or whatever equivalent competition exists then.

Anyway my apologies for making such a serious post in a thread that's meant to be just a bit of fun. Carry on!

 

[suckerforred]

The whole conference system goes out the door, at the same time one set of fans could walk away from the game for ever not having a team based in there city anymore. I go to 9 or 10 games a year and if Melbourne didn't have a team that would change to ZERO.

If this was twitter I would say that I had forgotton my hashtag - #drippingwithsarcasm

Was just trying to point out that NZ & SA supporters always tag the Oz conference as 'weak'. Theoretically a drop to four teams would/should concentrate the good players therefore improve the teams. We all know for various reasons, some of which Bardon touch on above, this will not happen.

I happen to believe that the 5th team in Super Rugby has improved the oportunities for Australian rugby. Pity it has not improved the management, but that is a whole other discussion.

 

[aeneas]

Was just trying to point out that NZ & SA supporters always tag the Oz conference as 'weak'. Theoretically a drop to four teams would/should concentrate the good players therefore improve the teams. We all know for various reasons, some of which Bardon touch on above, this will not happen.

I happen to believe that the 5th team in Super Rugby has improved the oportunities for Australian rugby. Pity it has not improved the management, but that is a whole other discussion.

I agree completely that having a 5th team has improved opportunities. The issue for observers from outside of australia is that nothing has been made of them. Aussie teams fill out 3 of the bottom 5 places in the competition after week 7 which makes the argument that the aussie conference is the weakest self evident.

 

[suckerforred]

I agree completely that having a 5th team has improved opportunities. The issue for observers from outside of australia is that nothing has been made of them. Aussie teams fill out 3 of the bottom 5 places in the competition after week 7 which makes the argument that the aussie conference is the weakest self evident.

Yep, but you can not expect 3 of the teams to be in the top 5 after 2 years. The improvement in the Australian conference has to be looked at as a long term goal. Two, three even five years is not long term when talking developing players. We are coming from a base where Rugby is not the first choice of football codes, unlike SA and NZ in particular. How long have the Warriors been in the NRL and how competitive have they been? Rugby in Australia is in the same position as League in NZ. Actually worse because we are also competing against Soccer and AFL.

The ARU and Australian franchises need to start developing and encouraging players from juniors to make sure that there is an adequate base to select from in years to come. It is going to take a few years for these juniors to get to an age, let along a skill level, to be able to play in Super Rugby. We are looking at 10-15 years. In the mean time we just need to suck it up and make the best of the situation that we have.

Now back to the thread......

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Yep, but you can not expect 3 of the teams to be in the top 5 after 2 years. The improvement in the Australian conference has to be looked at as a long term goal. Two, three even five years is not long term when talking developing players. We are coming from a base where Rugby is not the first choice of football codes, unlike SA and NZ in particular. How long have the Warriors been in the NRL and how competitive have they been? Rugby in Australia is in the same position as League in NZ. Actually worse because we are also competing against Soccer and AFL.

The ARU and Australian franchises need to start developing and encouraging players from juniors to make sure that there is an adequate base to select from in years to come. It is going to take a few years for these juniors to get to an age, let along a skill level, to be able to play in Super Rugby. We are looking at 10-15 years. In the mean time we just need to suck it up and make the best of the situation that we have.

Now back to the thread..

The Force are only now beginning to witness the very first of the new generation of players to fill their roster emerge in Kyle Godwin who has been very good so far this season. Yes, they have had a few more but arguably outside of Justin Turner none have been up to the Super Rugby standard. It takes a minimum of 10 years before locally developed talent through the local system to begin articulate into the senior Super Rugby squads. It's a long term project in which you should be looking at where these clubs sit in year 15-20 of their existence not 3 and 6/7.

 

[aeneas]

The Force are only now beginning to witness the very first of the new generation of players to fill their roster emerge in Kyle Godwin who has been very good so far this season. Yes, they have had a few more but arguably outside of Justin Turner none have been up to the Super Rugby standard. It takes a minimum of 10 years before locally developed talent through the local system to begin articulate into the senior Super Rugby squads. It's a long term project in which you should be looking at where these clubs sit in year 15-20 of their existence not 3 and 6/7.

The ARU and Australian franchises need to start developing and encouraging players from juniors to make sure that there is an adequate base to select from in years to come. It is going to take a few years for these juniors to get to an age, let along a skill level, to be able to play in Super Rugby. We are looking at 10-15 years. In the mean time we just need to suck it up and make the best of the situation that we have.

You are both correct and I actually agree that Australia needs 5 teams. However, given the way that the competition is evolving and perhaps may do so in future eg, Argentina having a team, potential expansion into Asia/Pacific and maybe a team or two from Europe having a time horizon of 10 - 20 years before the quality is improved throughout might be a bit late.

 

[nomis]

Can anyone foresee a time when they might close off the conferences? I know it would mean adding a couple of new teams to the existing conferences, and depth would seem like an even bigger issue. BUT... if they closed off the conferences, wouldn't that mask the problem of depth? Each conference could even out the playing field internally, and only the top couple of teams would go thru to play in the finals against the best from the other conferences.

The big no-no against this idea might come from NZ and SA who already have national domestic comps later in the year. BUT... it been almost 15 years since the franchises were established in NZ and SA. Wouldn't that mean, that for anyone under 20yrs old, these would be the main teams they follow? They have all the test stars playing in them.

I'm going off topic here, so can someone direct me to the relevant thread to discuss this further?

 

[qwerty51]

Australia might be the weakest conference but it's to no advantage to our sides. The SA conference is still the least competitive with the Cheetahs and Lions/Kings never able to beat the top 3 sides. The Force knocked off the Reds recently.