Progression Planning

[tranquility]

As it stands I believe that Queensland has by far and away the best academy crop in the country. With the Rebels coming in next year - and the other states being partial to robbing us of our talent, we must become ruthless with out roster. In some cases the academy players are already at a level of ability more deserving of a senior contract than those currently holding them.

Players that need to be de-listed at seasons end; Tasi Luafutu, Dayna Edwards, Brando Va'aulu.

Players on the brink, playing for their careers; Ezra Taylor, Blair Connor, Morgan Turinui, Jack Kennedy, Greg Holmes.

Academy Players that need to be promoted for next season (Rookie contract or Senior contract); Ed Quirk, Jake Shatz, James Slipper, Ben Tapuai, Kimani Situati, Aiden Toua, Andrew Shaw.

Prioroties to stay in the Queensland academy system for 2011; Liam Gill, Paul Alo-Emile, Jono Lance, Albert Anae, Dominic Shipperley, Simon Morahan.


* Notes

- I watched Kimani recently in the 7s, and his strength in contact for his age is nothing short of outstanding. He could be anything.
- Tapuai & Toua are both outstanding young backs that by seasons end will have done their apprenticeship and will be ready for senior football, be in in Queensland or somewhere else.
-James Slipper is an outstanding young TH and will get plenty of minutes this season.
- Quirk & Shatz are arguably the two best young backrowers in Australia along with Gill and McAffrey of NSW.

thoughts??

 

[TOCC]

the Brisbane Broncos have remained consistently one of the best NRL sides over the past 15 years, much of this is down to Bennet and the junior system in QLD which was previously weighted heavily for the Broncos.

One of the biggest things which the Broncos were able to do succesfully was succession planning, Wayne Bennet actually had a set requirement that there was a minimum 20%(cant remember exact %) of player turnover each year to ensure new blood is coming through and lay the platform for the future.

The Broncos selected a core group of central players which they identified as the leadership group and placed them as priorities, and then built the team around them. At the moment the Reds are only just getting towards the point of having a core group of essential players in Horwill, Cooper, Ioane, Genia and Hynes, ideally they would have another forward in that list as well.

Once they have that leadership group or players in the essential positions then they will begin to attract players again, as long as QLD doesnt lose Hynes a the end of the season i think most of the younger players will want to remain.

 

[tranquility]

no takers?
okay, back to my rock.

 

[chief]

the Brisbane Broncos have remained consistently one of the best NRL sides over the past 15 years, much of this is down to Bennet and the junior system in QLD which was previously weighted heavily for the Broncos.

One of the biggest things which the Broncos were able to do succesfully was succession planning, Wayne Bennet actually had a set requirement that there was a minimum 20%(cant remember exact %) of player turnover each year to ensure new blood is coming through and lay the platform for the future.

The Broncos selected a core group of central players which they identified as the leadership group and placed them as priorities, and then built the team around them. At the moment the Reds are only just getting towards the point of having a core group of essential players in Horwill, Cooper, Ioane, Genia and Hynes, ideally they would have another forward in that list as well.

Once they have that leadership group or players in the essential positions then they will begin to attract players again, as long as QLD doesnt lose Hynes a the end of the season i think most of the younger players will want to remain.

It's also due to the Rugby League loving city, and the only one Rugby League club within Brisbane. NSW have about 8 (?) clubs maybe more. A lot are so close to each other. Brisbane wouldn't be such a strong club if say they created a Sunshine Coast team, and another team located in either Brisbane or Ipswich. But Rugby League development in QLD would be even stronger.

 

[spectator]

no takers?
okay, back to my rock.

We may see glimpses of some of these young blokes in S 14 this year but I think the real guage for a lot of them will be how they go in the club season, as most S14 players will also play a lot of the season, and in any end of year development tour that might be organised.

The other measure will be the U20 World cup.

 

[tranquility]

the Brisbane Broncos have remained consistently one of the best NRL sides over the past 15 years, much of this is down to Bennet and the junior system in QLD which was previously weighted heavily for the Broncos.

One of the biggest things which the Broncos were able to do succesfully was succession planning, Wayne Bennet actually had a set requirement that there was a minimum 20%(cant remember exact %) of player turnover each year to ensure new blood is coming through and lay the platform for the future.

The Broncos selected a core group of central players which they identified as the leadership group and placed them as priorities, and then built the team around them. At the moment the Reds are only just getting towards the point of having a core group of essential players in Horwill, Cooper, Ioane, Genia and Hynes, ideally they would have another forward in that list as well.

Once they have that leadership group or players in the essential positions then they will begin to attract players again, as long as QLD doesnt lose Hynes a the end of the season i think most of the younger players will want to remain.

It's also due to the Rugby League loving city, and the only one Rugby League club within Brisbane. NSW have about 8 (?) clubs maybe more. A lot are so close to each other. Brisbane wouldn't be such a strong club if say they created a Sunshine Coast team, and another team located in either Brisbane or Ipswich. But Rugby League development in QLD would be even stronger.

Chief I don't actually think that is true. Sure it helps that in it's inception the Broncos were the only team in the Queensland but the culture and infrastructure at the Broncos is second to none, in almost any code. Bennett would select players that he thought were good men - become when the going gets tough, good men not the most skilled make the best footballers. They are very strict on their players and are constantly being used as structure for new sides. The Crusaders have used the Brisbane Broncos business structure in the analysis of their business procedures.

I believe they are also the only NRL club listed on the ASX and i'm not sure currently but a few years ago were the only club in the competition surviving in the black.

The Reds should be begging for some lessons from the Broncos re: infrastructure and developments in all areas on the business.

 

[louie]

While i have no idea about what's going with QLDRU at the moment but these are some of my thoughts on running any club and why the force (WA) are having the problems they are with the number 10 role.

Squad Roles:
Every Player in a Club should have a role and level of development in the club.

First Team:
Your Frist XV. The best of the best. Every Position on the field is taken into account but also every skill (passing kicking, vision, creative play, off the ball, leadership, etc) and physical need (strength, stamina, etc).
(15 players)

Back Up:
Should be physically able plus have the mentality to change or add to a game.
Age should really be taken into consideration with this role. For the clubs benefit it should be seen as a development player with the skill and physical level to be a back up. It's almost pointless for a club to have anyone 29-30+ as a back up player. It has no long term rewards for the club and their just hanging round picking a pay check for very little work.
The force are example of this with the number 10 problem. They signed two players as back ups that are over the age 30. Sam Harris had an awful game on Friday night. If this was a younger player it would have been a valuable lesson learned but at his age their is not long term game from playing like that. It's just decline.
The Brumbies have showed this evidence of this point in the last two years with Christian Lealiifano. There have been times when he has played some amazing rugby and some awful rugby. But youth as on his side and we'll see the benefits of it for the next few years.

(12-15 players)

Development:
Players that have potential. Should under 22-23.
These guys need as much game time as possible. They should be playing more rugby then the above players.
If they can get at least 10-15min of first team game time a year would be perfect.
These players are the ones you hang onto for years and have faith in.
If the force had been doing this they wouldn't have the problems their having now.

(15-20 players)

Age:
A serect of mine is that I'm a huge Arsenal fan (English Football Club) and their manager Arsene Wenger. I have a love of how he runs a football club and his principles around the game. One thing that he does that should/could a part of rugby in Australian Rugby is his age contract policy. Any player over the age off 30 is only ever given a one year contract. This gives the clubs a chance to yearly re-value a player and are not as locked down to someone whose best days are best then

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy is the philosphy here.

 

[rugbyfreak]

no takers?
okay, back to my rock.

What about Jordan Toupou? Aust Schoolboys Capt, and he can't even get a Reds Academy contract?

 

[Lee Grant]

Well said speckie.

As for the contention that the Reds have the strongest Academy players I think that you are close to the mark tranquility. The trick for the Reds - especially as far as the outside backs are concerned - is to keep the best ones.

I had a bit of a shock seeing the Kiwi lad Sitauti for the first time last year at the Oz Schools tournament. The young winger hogged the ball a bit and just when you'd thought he'd overplayed his hand he'd be walking back getting slaps on the back from his team mates because he had scored a try.

He looked good in the LV 7s didn't he? A bit of ball hogging there doesn't go astray. Then there's his little Qld schools team mate on the other wing last year, Feauai, who is back at school this year. Sitauti looks like a 7s player who can play senior XVs rugby easily. He is not the greyhound type like Sills, who is faster but not robust. Sills' coaches didn't promote him to grade last year.

You buggers have half a dozen quick outside backs coming through and we have zilch except for a Matt Burkish fullback in the Academy.

What I haven't seen from Qld schools in recent years for the Reds Academy is good T5 forwards, with PAE being the eye popping exception. They have been lacking in tall timber in particular. Simmons doesn't seem to be in the coach's favour these days. I thought he'd be a good 'un though he's still young enough to make it. Nick Buchanan looked very promising but he's playing cricket now.

I haven't seen a lot of good young 9s and 10s from Qld recently either though you probably have up there. I can't remember seeing Jonno Lance since he left school, but have heard so much about his progress I look forward to seeing him when he plays with the Qld Twos here. He certainly has the physicality and hardness bloodlines.

As for midfielders - we may have you there in a few years time with our blokes. I thought Tapuai would have a S14 contract by now, as his Oz Schools team mate Rob Horne is in his 3rd year at the Tahs already - if he gets on the park. But not seeing club rugby up there I don't know why Taps doesn't have a S14 contract by now.

Your backrow futures look very good and I sincerely hope that Gill can bulk up. Mind you, the Sharks loosie Daniel is a small man and he goes OK; but I'm more concerned about Gills future for Oz.


PS rugbyfreak - I didn't rate JT too highly playing for Qld and Oz Schools last year - but that is probably due more to poor watching than poor playing.

 

[tranquility]

I think Jordan was passed over by the Reds and was picked up by the Brumbies? however i'm not sure. He is a linking 7 not a fetcher and the powers that be chose Gill as the development 7.

 

[Lee Grant]

The powers that be made the right choice. Gill has star quality.

 

[tranquility]

Also fantastic post LG. I generally agree with you posts and I think you have mostly hit the nail on the head.

The outside back sitation is a testament to the style of play and climate that suit for running rugby. We have up to 6 outside on the books in development who possess infinite potential. The key is keeping the right ones - back to the Bennett thing - probably the right personalities rather than ability.

In terms of inside backs we really bottled a decades worth of talent into a couple of years; think Ben Lucas, QC (Quade Cooper), To'omua, Genia.

We are short on tight forwards and it is a problem, however Slipper is an exceptional player.

Tapuai is just biding his time, he has not placed a foot wrong. Horne was essentially warehoused by NSW much in the same way that KB (Kurtley Beale) was - he was just such an outstanding player that he has developed even quicker than they could have imagine. Amazingly talented footballer.

Tapuai could be a genuinely complete 12. He is not a 10 nor a 13. He is a 12, fullstop.

Gill will have no problem. He has the will like David (Pocock) - however not as lucky physically.

 

[chief]

Reds don't need him because they have Gill. Gill who is as Lee said star quality. If all goes well for Tupou he'll play a couple of games for Premier Colts, if he makes the Premier Rugby team at whatever club he plays for, then maybe they'll sign him.

 

[Lee Grant]

Tapuai could be a genuinely complete 12. He is not a 10 nor a 13. He is a 12, fullstop. Yep - that was my opinion of him as a schools and U/20 player.

Gill will have no problem. He has the will like David (Pocock) - however not as lucky physically. No, not as lucky - if he can't bulk up it won't be a crying shame but I will have a tear in my eye. When you watch these young players at school as much as I do, you feel like a rugby relative and may I say, sincerely, that I don't care what jersey they wear.

 

[TOCC]

in regards to Jordan Toupou, he doesnt have a ACT contract as far as i am aware, there was rumours he did but they were false.

Liam Gill, i dont think size is the be all and end all, he played the other night in the Reds Academy side and he performed quite well against grown men, give him a few years of weights and i dont think he will have any dramas, my only worry for him is that the game will change in a way so openside flankers arent what they used to be.

Tapuai, Taps is definetly on top of the list for getting a contract upgrade this year, however he is a melbourne boy and i wouldnt be surprised if he says no to a full time contract and heads south to the Rebels.

 

[rugbywhisperer]

no takers?
okay, back to my rock.

What about Jordan Toupou? Aust Schoolboys Capt, and he can't even get a Reds Academy contract?

Too small. There was talk of grooming him for 12 but not sure of how that went.

 

[TOCC]

i hate to say it but the very reason Liam Gill might have been picked over Jordan Toupou for the academy could be because of his pedigree. People say it doesnt exist, but it does, Toupou is from BSHS and that school isnt heavily weighted in the rugby union old boys club as say a school like Gregory Terrace which Gill is from.

Both are quality players and it would have been hard to pick between them, i know there was a similar issue a few years back when the Reds were tossing up between Luke Mclean(St Laurences College) and Ben Lucas(Gregory Terrace). Everyone has there opinion of who was better, i thought McLean was much better then Lucas however Lucas still received a Reds contract and McLean didnt.

For those who dont know, Mclean went to Europe and is now a regular starter for Italy

 

[tranquility]

I completley disagree with that sentiment mate.

Currently from BSHS you have Quirk, Faullkner, PAE, and Kimani Situati and that is just in the academy.

Peter Hynes in the senior squad also went to state high.

There plenty of players in the queensland set-up that are from outside the 'gps' sector in both the academy and professional squad.

Im not going to go and name them all because it should be irrelevant - and it is.

Ben Lucas was an absolutle freak as a schoolboy and went on tour with the schoolboys twice. Which as a Queenslander is extraordinary because we gave away a year in age to NSW.

 

[Scotty]

The Broncos selected a core group of central players which they identified as the leadership group and placed them as priorities, and then built the team around them. At the moment the Reds are only just getting towards the point of having a core group of essential players in Horwill, Cooper, Ioane, Genia and Hynes, ideally they would have another forward in that list as well.

Play well this year. At least a mid table finish and we might have a chance at getting the likes of Moore, Barnes and Pocock back to Queensland.

If two of these three come back in the next year or two it will make it a lot easier to retain good players and attract new ones. The Reds could be strong again with a leadership group of Moore, Horwill, Pocock, Barnes, Genia and Hynes to build around, particularly when you take into account the average age of this group at all of about 22-23.

 

[TOCC]

I completley disagree with that sentiment mate.

Currently from BSHS you have Quirk, Faullkner, PAE, and Kimani Situati and that is just in the academy.

Peter Hynes in the senior squad also went to state high.

There plenty of players in the queensland set-up that are from outside the 'gps' sector in both the academy and professional squad.

Im not going to go and name them all because it should be irrelevant - and it is.

Ben Lucas was an absolutle freak as a schoolboy and went on tour with the schoolboys twice. Which as a Queenslander is extraordinary because we gave away a year in age to NSW.

yeah those players did make the academy, however they were standouts by far, where as Gill and Toupou were a lot closer.. Im not saying that is what happened, but i believe it has happened in the past and the Lucas - McLean issue was one of those, they were both going for the 5'8 position in the academy however Lucas was chosen over McLean.