Pre Season '16: Stormers vs Jaguares

[Marcelo]

The first starting XV of Jaguares to face the Stormers in Cape Town

The starting XV of Stormers:

15 Dillyn Leyds
14 Kobus van Wyk
13 Johnny Kotze
12 Huw Jones
11 Leolin Zas
10 Robert Du Preez
9 Jano Vermaak
8 Nizaam Carr (captain)
7 Sikhumbuzo Notshe
6 Rynhardt Elstadt
5 Pieter Steph du Toit
4 Jean Kleyn
3 Vincent Koch
2 Bongi Mbonambi
1 Oli Kebble

Substitutes : Scarra Ntubeni, Michael Willemse, JC Janse van Rensburg, JP Smith, Alistair Vermaak, Jan de Klerk, JD Schickerling, Rikus Bothma, Jurie van Vuuren, Nic Groom, Godlen Masimla, Louis Schreuder, Kurt Coleman, Brandon Thompson, Ryan Oosthuizen , Khanyo Ngcukana

Kicks off at 16.00 on Saturday, February 13 (SA time zone)

 

[dru]

Now this is going to be interesting.

 

[qwerty51]

Argentina by 30.

 

[Marcelo]

Stormers beat the Jaguares 29-14

 

[qwerty51]

Yeah bit of a shock really. Maybe the Jaguares won't be that dominant.

 

[USARugger]

Anybody catch the game at all?

Surprising result but it is still preseason after all - the Reds toweled the Crusaders last year (or maybe it was the year before.. either way we were shit in the actual season to follow)

 

[Omar Comin']

I think people overrate the difference between national teams and top club/franchise teams. When you add in home ground advantage (especially when you're talking about traveling between continents) I don't think it's that big a surprise. Just look at the British and Irish Lions tours. The Lions are a stronger team than Argentina yet they're still capable of losing to an understrength Brumbies team or being pushed close by an understrength Reds. I bet at least 1 of the NZ Super Rugby teams will beat them in 2017 as well.

Just imagine say the Springboks taking on the Brumbies at full strength in Canberra. The Springboks would likely be favourites but the Brumbies winning wouldn't be a huge shock. Not sure why people expect the Jaguars to crush everyone.

 

[dru]

I think people overrate the difference between national teams and top club/franchise teams.

OK. Now think about a National team that is ALSO a team playing through the season in possibly the world's toughest club/franchise comp. yes its something you could look at and see the lowest common denominator.

I'm hoping that it's another step toward dominant southern hemisphere rugby.

 

[BDA]

Yeah bit of a shock really. Maybe the Jaguares won't be that dominant.

I think people are hyping them up a bit too much. They're a good side on paper, and they'll probably have the best debut year in the history of Super Rugby, but I cant see them being serious contenders in this competition in their first year. I'll predict a preliminary finals exit.

 

[qwerty51]

Why? I mean it's 90% of the Argie side. I don't buy Omar's comparison to the Lions given they have no cohesion, especially the midweek teams. These guys play with each other year round.

If you want to see what a full national side does to a club side look at France vs Blues in 2013.

 

[Omar Comin']

If you want to see what a full national side does to a club side look at France vs Blues in 2013.

In 2013 the Blues came 10th in Super Rugby. With a young team missing 8 top line players (including 6 in the All Blacks squad) they lost 38-15 to France. They lost a couple of games by similar scores during the season with their best team.

I think this supports my argument if anything. How'd that French team have gone against the Blues at full strength, or a better team at full strength?

 

[Omar Comin']

Btw, I'm not saying I don't think the Jaguars will do well. I think they'll make the finals and will be contenders to win the title. I just disagree with people that seem to say they should be head and shoulders above every team in the comp.

There's not a huge gulf in class between say the Brumbies best XV and the Wallabies best XV for example. Half the team is the same and most of the rest of the Brumbies can hold their own against their Wallabies equivalent. And the Brumbies are capable of losing to at least half a dozen other teams in Super Rugby, so I just see it as being the same for the Jaguars. They're not going to beat all of the best teams, particularly when playing away.

 

[BDA]

The Argies might have been the 4th best team at the world cup, but they were comfortably beaten by Australia twice last year, and they were comfortably beaten by the Kiwis twice. As Omar says, the top Super Rugby teams won't be that much of a step down. The Jags' games against the likes of the Brumbies and Tahs will presumably be close affair. Then take into account the inexperience of Super Rugby (which is traditionally a different affair to test rugby) as well as the travel factor, and the fact that most of the squad have never won a game in OZ, SA or NZ, I think that all works against them.

Still on paper a strong side.

 

[Braveheart81]

You'd imagine they'll improve substantially as the side hasn't been together for very long.

The strength of their South African conference will go a long way towards deciding how they go. If they finish on top and get to play finals matches at home they could easily win.

I tend to think that being a new side together with having a huge travel schedule will mean that they aren't a major contender for the title. They could sneak into the playoffs but I think that will be it.

I think they could be a real shot in 2017 though.

 

[Omar Comin']

It wouldn't surprise me if they rotate their players a fair bit. It'll be tough for any team to beat them in Argentina, especially if they play their top team in every game at home. They can reduce the effect of the travel schedule somewhat by rotating their squad when playing away. The biggest advantage I think they have is probably their depth. The 2nd XV of their squad should be better than any other teams 2nd XV and I think they'll be able to pick up some away wins even if they rest top players.

 

[Marcelo]

Why? I mean it's 90% of the Argie side. I don't buy Omar's comparison to the Lions given they have no cohesion, especially the midweek teams. These guys play with each other year round.

If you want to see what a full national side does to a club side look at France vs Blues in 2013.

Now it's 99% of the Argie side. Cubelli is the only one who doesn't play for the Jaguares. All Argie players who play in Europe are unavailable for the Pumas since this year

 

[USARugger]

Imhoff is still at Racing Metro - pretty big player for the Pumas.

 

[qwerty51]

Yeah I don't believe for one second they won't pick Imhoff. They'll probably pick Figallo too, he's only 27 as well.