Player Distribution in Australia and the Potential for a Draft

[Wilson]

There's been a lot of talk about player distribution in Australia lately, with wallabies top ups and sabbaticals, super rugby players playing in the NRC and particularly the potential for a draft all points of contention. The Force CEO Mark Sindberry has called for a draft http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...t-of-a-complete-strategy-20140905-10cws0.html and Cheika is backing it http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...rging-rugby-union-talent-20140911-10fi6r.html. RUPA CEO Greg Harris is also interested but cautious. I thought it might be worth starting a discussion on the potential avenues that could be explored here, be it a draft, more central contracts with the ARU having a greater say in who players play for, or something else entirely.

Personally I love the idea of a draft, but I can't for the life of me work out how you could do it in Rugby's competitive environment for talent. On the plus side every sport that has one tends to get great publicity out of it and with tv rights and coverage to be sold they are in effect being paid to sort out there playing rosters. However all the competitions I am aware of running successful drafts (AFL in Australia, NFL, NBA, etc in USA) are the pinnacle and often sole league for the sport and have little competition for there players from outside. The negative is that Rugby's situation is more difficult. With the NRL, France, Japan and to a lesser extent England all options for these players they have a variety of options giving them more agency over their career then subjecting themselves to a draft. The question has to be asked how much young talent could we potentially lose in the short term with a draft, and would it pay off in the long run?

Which ever way the ARU moves forward on this, the NRC is exposing a much larger range of players to a higher level of rugby (and they will likely begin to catch the attention of foreign competitions), so moves will need to be made soon to secure and get the most out of the next generation of talent. With Super 18 close on the horizon I'd expect changes to come into play then. What are everyone's thoughts and ideas?

 

[liquor box]

I would love a draft, it should allow for more even distribution of players talent wise.

For a draft to work you have to accept that being a pro means playing where the money is for the money and not necessarily for a team of your choice.

I think there should be a dispensation for players whose fathers played for a team to go there, as long as that team swaps a draft pick and pays the same amount.

I think if a draft comes in then the ARU needs to be fully in charge and just have two "talent schools" in Sydney and Brisbane where ALL the young players will live and train and play club rugby until they make S15/S18. I think these are the only two cities that can provide the competition for the young player to learn what they need to learn.

I think the ARU as the overseer of talent should also be able to loan players if there is injuries that require a replacement for a few weeks. If a team loses its 3 top hookers then they could be lent the next best hooker in the draft squads.

I would also think a draft could be exciting if it means that we get foreign talent entering, we could get some standout talent from other countries interested in coming over and trying to get a contract.

 

[Wilson]

I think if a draft comes in then the ARU needs to be fully in charge and just have two "talent schools" in Sydney and Brisbane where ALL the young players will live and train and play club rugby until they make S15/S18. I think these are the only two cities that can provide the competition for the young player to learn what they need to learn.

The problem with warehousing talent like that, even if it's spread back out when they enter super rugby, is it weakens club comps in the other states and restricts their ability to grow and produce more players of there own. It'd also weaken the NRC teams in the other states.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

Why not have a talent combine camp where the various teams can attend and assess the talent there and then pick from the draft

 

[Bowside]

Fuck the draft and fuck the salary cap. Firstly, they only work in competitions where every team is subject to them and there are no special top ups for internationals.

Secondly, both are lazy band aid solutions to a bigger problem which is the lack of grassroots pathway outside Brisbane and Sydney.

I would be more than happy for the ARU to divert funds from Qld and NSW and instead pump them into improving the school and club competitions in Victoria and WA. Build a proper grassroots pathway and combine it with top coaches at super rugby level for the force and rebels. That way there is a steady supply of quality players regardless, and you filter out the players that are only there for the money.

 

[TOCC]

What level of funding does the ARU provide to the QLD Premier Grade and NSW Shute Shield, my understanding is that was cut last year which is a major reason the Sunshine Coast Stingrays folded.

Also, if you add in the additional charges like the ARU did last year on all juniors, how much revenue are those states providing to the ARU..

 

[Pass it to Dunning!]

The draft for AFL and the US sports work because there are no alternative competitions to play in. Let's face it, if a player has to move to a city where he doesn't know anyone against his will, wouldn't he be better off going to Japan or France for double the money.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

Sod a draft, they're actually terrible. I want to see local players in my local team. If that can't be achieved then I at least want to see the team aiming to develop local players from young age. A draft forces players to have to live and play in places against their will, in fact the afl one only still stands because of a gentlemen's agreement between the league and the players union that the latter won't challenge it.

Drafts and salary caps work for pleb sports like yankball and AFL because players have nowhere else to go and players come from all over the country. Currently the rebels are establishing an elite development pathway from youth to seniors in Victoria with an aim to nurture and keep quality players in Victoria. A draft here would just be an excuse for the rebels and force to stop all junior development because they could just wait for the draft and draft all their players from other states and not need to put a cent into development.


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[Melbourne Terrace]

The draft for AFL and the US sports work because there are no alternative competitions to play in. Let's face it, if a player has to move to a city where he doesn't know anyone against his will, wouldn't he be better off going to Japan or France for double the money.

This, if a promising young player from Brisbane or Sydney being provided with 2 options like for example;

1) Be forced to Move to Canberra for peanuts and play in front of a couple thousand families and old blokes and have having nothing to do outside of work.

Or

2) Move to Paris or the French Rivière for twice as much and play in front of mental fans each week.

That young player is probably not even give a toss about the first


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[I like to watch]

You can't have a draft,if
A) you don't have a competition in which to play them.
And
B) you pay them less than tuck shop money.
C) What about the kids that have secured an apprenticeship locally,or scraped into a local university,but their marks won't get them a start in the area to which they have been drafted?

 

[MungoMan]

You can't have a draft,if
A) you don't have a competition in which to play them.
And
B) you pay them less than tuck shop money.
C) What about the kids that have secured an apprenticeship locally,or scraped into a local university,but their marks won't get them a start in the area to which they have been drafted?

All of which are valid points. And there are others.

D) How to account for kids who played rugby at school but were most recently playing RL, e.g national youth cup, NRL feeder club age-group comp, etc? If a draft is reasonably seen as a disincentive for such kids to consider code-swapping, ring-fencing them as regards the draft would risk other kids gaming this by taking a short-term RL contract and then code-swapping.

E) Legal challenge: the AFL draft survives on the back of a gentlemen's agreement between players and stakeholders not to take the draft to court. As others (including in this thread) have pointed out, securing and maintaining this type of agreement is more do-able for elite-level comps fully contained in one country and where that country doesn't have rival elite-level comps in the same code or a cognate code. There are no NZ-domiciled clubs / franchises in the AFL comp; other australian football comps here in Oz are second-tier operations; and movement by young wannabe pros between codes is a rarity rather than a common occurrence.

 

[fatprop]

The draft for AFL and the US sports work because there are no alternative competitions to play in. Let's face it, if a player has to move to a city where he doesn't know anyone against his will, wouldn't he be better off going to Japan or France for double the money.

The draft in the AFL works because no one has challenge it, it is illegal at law as it is a restraint of trade.

It has been since the Terry Hill took the NRL to the high court in 1991

 

[liquor box]

I want to see local players in my local team.

I would rather my team recruit the best talent, not base this choice on geography.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

I would rather my team recruit the best talent, not base this choice on geography.

That's a fair point but I think local players are more inclined to not only to want to stay at these teams for longer but also not demand as much money. It's a much harder choice for a player to go to Europe for example if it means leaving his home town team. At least in Melbourne and Perth, it's in their interest to develop their own players because it means they don't have to help relocate players and it gives them access to steady stream of talent like NSW, ACT and QLD. I'd say they are also more marketable to the public if they have a decent amount of talent.

 

[Melbourne Terrace]

I would rather my team recruit the best talent, not base this choice on geography.

Plus a draft isn't going to give you the best talent, it's diluting it through 5 teams.


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[Highlander35]

With only a Super side in each state, there's always going to be too many players in the Rugby Heartlands. These players will move to get their opportunity. Some will be based on ability, some will be based on age, some on positioning. Waugh vs Smith springs to mind, the Tahs hemorrhage wingers over the last couple, the Reds have missed both Cottrell and McMahon, albeit to secure blokes like McDuling, Browning, Schatz and Quirk.

So, at the moment, I'm happy to pick up the rejects, the youngsters, the second stringers, and those looking for a decent crack.

But reducing that reliance, say if the Force and Rebels could have about 50/50 split of locals/imports, is an important goal for the next decade or so.

With 9 NRC teams, and 5 Super rugby teams, the terrible maths hopefully facilitates that goal