Oz U20 Team
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good team (as per last year...), something possibly like:
15 James O'Connor
14 Rod Davies
13 Rob Horne
12 Kurtley Beale
11 Afusipa Taumoepeau
10 Matt To'omua
9 Richard Kingi
8 Jake Shatz
7 Sam Latunipulu
6 Talalelei Gray
5 Rob Simmons
4 Kane Douglas
3 James Slipper
2 Damian Fitzpatrick
1 Albert Anae
Obviously a bit of versatility with the bacline and you could mix things around.
Didn't realise Andrew Shaw was so young.
I see they have Mark Swanepoel listed as WA. Obviously he's been poached again.
3 Hookers in the squad (plus Anae) for 5 games? A bit of overkill?
Only 3 Props.
3 Scrummies too.
15 James O'Connor
14 Rod Davies
13 Rob Horne
12 Kurtley Beale
11 Afusipa Taumoepeau
10 Matt To'omua
9 Richard Kingi
8 Jake Shatz
7 Sam Latunipulu
6 Talalelei Gray
5 Rob Simmons
4 Kane Douglas
3 James Slipper
2 Damian Fitzpatrick
1 Albert Anae
Obviously a bit of versatility with the bacline and you could mix things around.
Didn't realise Andrew Shaw was so young.
I see they have Mark Swanepoel listed as WA. Obviously he's been poached again.
3 Hookers in the squad (plus Anae) for 5 games? A bit of overkill?
Only 3 Props.
3 Scrummies too.
F
formeropenside
Guest
Noddy said:
How many games did Swanepoel play for WA schoolboys again?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Exactly louie - I think that it's admirable. 2 years ago Knuckles wouldn't let Cooper and Beale go to an U/19 tournament because they were needed as 4th/5th stringers for the Wallabies. Turns out that Cooper got injured anyway, but the idea was flawed.
I said a year ago that the Oz team looked good on paper but it would be how many minutes the Oz pack could perform at the coalface in crunch games that would define their tournament. Sure enough the England pack wore them out. Mind you a charge down kick which led to a Pom try, at the end, didn't exactly help.
I have the same view about this squad.
O'Connor should play at fullback for two reasons:
1. The back three otherwise will not be particularly fast, particuarly when Zipper and DHP play. Corey Brown is fast, but is unlikely to make the no. 1 team.
2. It leaves Robbie Horne and Ben Tapuai to reprise their centre pairing against NZ Schools in 2007, when they were terrific.
I guess you can add in a 3rd reason: it would enable the Rabbit to carve up against ad hoc teams. We can all remember how well he played at 15 against the Barbarians last year.
There won't be too many teams with better choices at 10. Both Beale and To'omua are S14 starters. If Beale goes well at 12 for the remaining matches of the S14 he could partner Horne in the midfield.
Scrummie is a problem. Swanepoel didn't play in the 2008 schools tournament and I have never seen him play senior rugby. Maybe nobody has - advice please. I don't know White, or can't remember him and I know Kingi only as an artful dodger Sevens player.
The props worry me simply because you don't get to see too many 19 and 20 y.os start in Oz senior rugby, and you can't assess them properly. Somehow I don't think the South African team will have the same concern.
The hooker position is well served. Charles was in the Oz team last year and I rate him highly because of his success for Sydney Uni at a young age. Fitzy was on standby for the 2008 team and didn't get to go, but he hadn't started in senior 1st grade rugby yet. Afterwards Fitzy began starting for Eastwood, he got into the Tahs professional Academy and when Freier was hurt, found himself playing in the S14 from the bench this season and dropping a ball near the Stormers goal line.
Not too many teams will have better locks than than Simmons and Douglas, but the grunt factor of these two is not confirmed. McDurling is a tough grunter and runner, but he doesn't have the lineout skills of the other two.
The likely starting backrowers nominated by Noddy are all hard bastards, but I haven't seen Schatz and Gray since school, except for frantic trial games.
I said a year ago that the Oz team looked good on paper but it would be how many minutes the Oz pack could perform at the coalface in crunch games that would define their tournament. Sure enough the England pack wore them out. Mind you a charge down kick which led to a Pom try, at the end, didn't exactly help.
I have the same view about this squad.
O'Connor should play at fullback for two reasons:
1. The back three otherwise will not be particularly fast, particuarly when Zipper and DHP play. Corey Brown is fast, but is unlikely to make the no. 1 team.
2. It leaves Robbie Horne and Ben Tapuai to reprise their centre pairing against NZ Schools in 2007, when they were terrific.
I guess you can add in a 3rd reason: it would enable the Rabbit to carve up against ad hoc teams. We can all remember how well he played at 15 against the Barbarians last year.
There won't be too many teams with better choices at 10. Both Beale and To'omua are S14 starters. If Beale goes well at 12 for the remaining matches of the S14 he could partner Horne in the midfield.
Scrummie is a problem. Swanepoel didn't play in the 2008 schools tournament and I have never seen him play senior rugby. Maybe nobody has - advice please. I don't know White, or can't remember him and I know Kingi only as an artful dodger Sevens player.
The props worry me simply because you don't get to see too many 19 and 20 y.os start in Oz senior rugby, and you can't assess them properly. Somehow I don't think the South African team will have the same concern.
The hooker position is well served. Charles was in the Oz team last year and I rate him highly because of his success for Sydney Uni at a young age. Fitzy was on standby for the 2008 team and didn't get to go, but he hadn't started in senior 1st grade rugby yet. Afterwards Fitzy began starting for Eastwood, he got into the Tahs professional Academy and when Freier was hurt, found himself playing in the S14 from the bench this season and dropping a ball near the Stormers goal line.
Not too many teams will have better locks than than Simmons and Douglas, but the grunt factor of these two is not confirmed. McDurling is a tough grunter and runner, but he doesn't have the lineout skills of the other two.
The likely starting backrowers nominated by Noddy are all hard bastards, but I haven't seen Schatz and Gray since school, except for frantic trial games.
Grandmaster Flash
Johnnie Wallace (23)
Biffo said:
10 including Haylett-Petty? Or has he just played for WA on tours?
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Hell thats a lot and hope you lot do better then last year. I thought you lot would have taken it and then the Poms got over you and us. Was very disappointing.
In SA it is a very big jump from U20 to S14. We have a U19 CC and U21. Our lot is in between this two and mostly are contracted for our U21 CC provincial teams. So they have to jump three steps (U21/Vodacom/CC) to get in a S14 squad. That dont happen often but we do produce one or two on occasion.
Ruaan Smith was in the original squad but look like he missed the cut in the end. He is still U19 tho and will play for WP this CC season. Heard he maybe one his way back to the Reds as early as next year.
Our squad hasnt been final but myself think they have one hell of a team this year.
Provisional Squad.
BLUE BULLS: Clayton Blommetjies, Zane Botha, Francois Brummer, Omphile Seabela, Tendayi Chikukwa, Marnus Schoeman, Cornell Hess, Pieter Rossouw de Klerk, Sampie Mastriet, Christiaan Stander, Gerhard Van den Heever, Morne Melle
FREE STATE: Josias Ebersohn, Robert Ebersohn, Lionel Cronje, Coenraad Oosthuizen
GOLDEN LIONS: Rudy Paige, David Bulbring, Caylib Oosthuizen
KWAZULU NATAL: Julian Redelinghuys, Kyle Cooper, Dale Chadwick, Ross Cronje, Jan Andre Marais, Kenechukwu Okafor
WESTERN PROVINCE: Nicolaas Hanekom, Johann Sadie, Yaasier Hartzenberg
We all know the Ebersohn twin and they sure are going to make a big impact in future SA rugby. The only one close to S14 rugby is Ross Cronje on the Shark bench earlier when Ruaan Pienaar was injured. Brummer from the Bulls played Vodacom rugby and also know Rossouw de Klerk very well.
Cant wait to see The Twins , Ross Cronje & Johann Sadie (Varsity Cup for Maties) having a crack. I'll rate this backline the best we had in many years.
In SA it is a very big jump from U20 to S14. We have a U19 CC and U21. Our lot is in between this two and mostly are contracted for our U21 CC provincial teams. So they have to jump three steps (U21/Vodacom/CC) to get in a S14 squad. That dont happen often but we do produce one or two on occasion.
Ruaan Smith was in the original squad but look like he missed the cut in the end. He is still U19 tho and will play for WP this CC season. Heard he maybe one his way back to the Reds as early as next year.
Our squad hasnt been final but myself think they have one hell of a team this year.
Provisional Squad.
BLUE BULLS: Clayton Blommetjies, Zane Botha, Francois Brummer, Omphile Seabela, Tendayi Chikukwa, Marnus Schoeman, Cornell Hess, Pieter Rossouw de Klerk, Sampie Mastriet, Christiaan Stander, Gerhard Van den Heever, Morne Melle
FREE STATE: Josias Ebersohn, Robert Ebersohn, Lionel Cronje, Coenraad Oosthuizen
GOLDEN LIONS: Rudy Paige, David Bulbring, Caylib Oosthuizen
KWAZULU NATAL: Julian Redelinghuys, Kyle Cooper, Dale Chadwick, Ross Cronje, Jan Andre Marais, Kenechukwu Okafor
WESTERN PROVINCE: Nicolaas Hanekom, Johann Sadie, Yaasier Hartzenberg
We all know the Ebersohn twin and they sure are going to make a big impact in future SA rugby. The only one close to S14 rugby is Ross Cronje on the Shark bench earlier when Ruaan Pienaar was injured. Brummer from the Bulls played Vodacom rugby and also know Rossouw de Klerk very well.
Cant wait to see The Twins , Ross Cronje & Johann Sadie (Varsity Cup for Maties) having a crack. I'll rate this backline the best we had in many years.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Hell this is very impressive.Noddy said:
Do you lot have a local kind of provincial/academy competition going or do they just play mayve curtain raisors for S14?
To be honest I know our rugby will be dead without that U19 & U21 CC competition. Thats the most important structure block in our game.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
PaarlBok said:
What details did you hear PB? As you know I rated him playing for Qld II Schools, with another year of school to go.
We don't have any of the U/19 or U/21 tournaments that your guys have - or anything like the 6N junior games. They would be dreams for us. Our guys may get a trial game before they go overseas for the tournament but that will be about it.
The advantage our players will have is that because of our lack of a national domestic competition in Oz and the consequent lack of depth, there is a scramble by the 4 Oz Super teams for the gun schoolboys of last year, or the year before that.
Thus we probably have more young players (prinicpally backs) involved in professional squad training, and even playing in pro rugby, than other international U/20 teams have.
So; our young players either get a leg up if they are chosen by the S14 squads, or are ignored until they are seasoned players identified through amateur club rugby. IMO that is a crap career path, and it would be better for them to fight their way through in a Currie Cup or ANZC - but I digress.
Of the list than Noddy made:
- Beale, Horne, O'Connor and To'omua [recently, with the injury to Lealiifano] are regular S14 starters
- Davies, DHP and Shaw [tonight for the Reds] have started in S14 games and
- the others have been on the park at some time, including 3 for the Reds for the first time against the Crusaders tonight.
[And not to the point of this thread but my heart skipped a beat when Ben Tapuai came on against the Crusaders and was almost immediately put through to score the first Reds try. And didn't Kingi look to the manor born at scrumhalf when he got his chance?]
Thus we have that advantage to offset our lack of seasoning that players from other nations have in their junior tournaments, and that some of the Kiwis and SAffer players have in regular play in the ANZC and Currie Cup.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Yep thats very much true and explain a lot in our player stock on top level. Trust me you'll find a lot of experiense players not in S14 but still in Vodacom Cup with the smaller unions. Also the very reason there is a deadlock about the CC timeframe. Plays a very important part for us and I am glad our lot stick to their guns. Know Lee will understand that.
I havent got hold of Ruaan himself but talked to one of his friends about a month ago and he told me there is talks about him going back to Aus. Shame I think its heavy on him to decide like we talked in my PM to you and not something I'll like to discuss on a net board.
Think our U20 player that went the best this year have to be Robert Ebersohn. Plays for the SA 7s and sure would have been a shoe in for the Cheetahs. He decided wisely to play 7s this year. Think its better for young ones to go through the ranks. If you are not physical up to it on the top level you may end up short in the head when you get there. Not everyone is a Schalk Burger or a Frans Steyn. Think thats the one that gets to them now at this age. Frans still very young and have done it all already. He is only suppose to play S14 now and put a lot of pressure on himself and not handling it well at the moment.
I havent got hold of Ruaan himself but talked to one of his friends about a month ago and he told me there is talks about him going back to Aus. Shame I think its heavy on him to decide like we talked in my PM to you and not something I'll like to discuss on a net board.
Think our U20 player that went the best this year have to be Robert Ebersohn. Plays for the SA 7s and sure would have been a shoe in for the Cheetahs. He decided wisely to play 7s this year. Think its better for young ones to go through the ranks. If you are not physical up to it on the top level you may end up short in the head when you get there. Not everyone is a Schalk Burger or a Frans Steyn. Think thats the one that gets to them now at this age. Frans still very young and have done it all already. He is only suppose to play S14 now and put a lot of pressure on himself and not handling it well at the moment.
PaarlBok
Rod McCall (65)
Very true also about our youth leagues in CC. That U19 & U21 are always very tight competitions. You wont know the winner till after the final and a very good school for the youngsters. I dont think the NPC have something similair. Ask this to the Kiwis but one of those threads I'll never get a answer.
the gambler
Dave Cowper (27)
Lee Grant said:
I think we all had tears in our eyes on Fitzys debut. At least thats what I'm assuming his excuse was. ou dodged a bullet by having your computer down at the time on that one LG.
Did we miss out on a bonus point in that game? Just as a single misfield is never the difference in a cricket tie you cant look at individual errors, but having said that if the Tahs were to miss out on the finals by a point that would be one of the bigger mistakes (both players involved) of the year.
R
rugbywhisperer
Guest
Swanepoel has played very well this year. he played OK for Aus schools last year considering it was only his 3rd or 4th game of the year. I really don't think he will be a weakness, he is made of pretty strong stuff. Luke Evans apparently has a shot at the Welsh 9 spot so he could be a good one to watch but he doesn't tackle too well.
As for props, don't discount Slipper. If he stays injury free he will impress. Those at the top have him marked with a big tick and by no means is the captaincy issue sorted. Expect a possible surprise there as well.
As for props, don't discount Slipper. If he stays injury free he will impress. Those at the top have him marked with a big tick and by no means is the captaincy issue sorted. Expect a possible surprise there as well.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
He was a top player at school and good enough to keep Rabbit O'Connor on the bench for Oz Schools.
I was waiting for Queenslanders to mention his progress in senior club rugby last year or this year but he barely got a mention. I knew he was in the QAS but it was only when I saw him in action last night off the bench for the Reds that I could see the old promise was there, now at a senior level.
Ben played in the 2008 Oz U/20 team with Robbie Horne next to him in the midfield but damaged his hamstring in the England game. Now that they are both a year older, they should be a handful for their opponents.
I was waiting for Queenslanders to mention his progress in senior club rugby last year or this year but he barely got a mention. I knew he was in the QAS but it was only when I saw him in action last night off the bench for the Reds that I could see the old promise was there, now at a senior level.
Ben played in the 2008 Oz U/20 team with Robbie Horne next to him in the midfield but damaged his hamstring in the England game. Now that they are both a year older, they should be a handful for their opponents.
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