NZ Domestic comps

[waiopehu oldboy]

Heartland results are up on my new fave Czech betting site* & it's not pretty reading for 'nua, 14-43 Mid Cantabs.

Boilover of the comp to date...
King Country 23-17 Whanganui.

South Cantabs 56-0 Buller, just another day at mill, may as well engrave their name on the Meads Cup again.

Rugby Union: Heartland Championships 2024 live - results, fixtures, standings - Livesport.com

Heartland Championships 2024 live - follow Heartland Championships livescore, results, standings, statistics and match details on Livesport.com.

www.livesport.com

*Edit: just checked provincial.rugby, the Official/ NZR-endorsed site & of course there's nada. I'll check again Tuesday

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

They may be arguably two of the three worst teams in NPC but geez Otago & Southland are laying on one hell of a game, classic case of old school provincial rivalry making up for any lack of skills. Plenty of feeling, too, but mostly of the bigger v smaller sibling variety rather than anything nasty.

Edit: full disclosure, Dad was born in Gorrre & went to Sourrthland Boys so I'm a little Stags-biased.

 

[Dan54]

They may be arguably two of the three worst teams in NPC but geez Otago & Southland are laying on one hell of a game, classic case of old school provincial rivalry making up for any lack of skills. Plenty of feeling, too, but mostly of the bigger v smaller sibling variety rather than anything nasty.

Edit: full disclosure, Dad was born in Gorrre & went to Sourrthland Boys so I'm a little Stags-biased.

That was a proper game of rugby wasn't it WOB? Good to see teams still know how to get stuck into each other. Must admit I only caught 2nd half, been up to Naki/BOP game. That was also a good game, by geez the BOP wingers were bloody fast, and took some stopping.

Have to say the comp is fairly difficult to pick winners etc, tipping comp I in this weekend is any indication, if I had a bogey up my right nostril .I would probably try and pick the left!!!!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ & after today there will be only one unbeaten team - I'm picking it'll be Wellington but you can never discount those sneaky Cantabs.

 

[Dan54]

Yep it's Wellington. and once again I was scientific in my picks and knew that Wellington couldn't possibly win 3 games in storm week, especially as 2 were RS games! And Tasman won in extra time against NH, once again in Storm week, and both them and Wellington looked to be on knees on Wednesday night.

What the f*** do I know? Love this comp though!

 

[Dan54]

Well Manawatu after 17 losses win on Saturday by one point, and then go on to beat Ausckland by 2 (33-31) tonight. First win over Auckland since the 1980s!!!
Bloody hell almost every game close this week!!!
Was also interested to see 2 'son's of' playing for Auckland, Iceman's by Niko, and Carlos Spencer's boy Peyton getting first run at 15.
Actually liked both young 10s on display, Jock McKenzie for Aucks and Isiah Armstrong-Ravula (Fijian U20 player)

 

[Dan54]

Actually had it pointed out to me the young boy playing for Manawatu at 10, is Richie Mounga's nephew, he played for Fiji this season after missing NZ U20s, and is I think got a super (academy no doubt) contract. And sems he made it clear he wants to play for NZ next year.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ product of St Andrew's CheeChee so probably in the Crusaders system?

 

[Dan54]

^ product of St Andrew's CheeChee so probably in the Crusaders system?

Guessed that, reason I wondered with him being in Manawatu (hoping the Canes had got one)

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ A bit more googling tells me he was 'canes U20's this year so you may well be right.

 

[Dan54]

^ A bit more googling tells me he was 'canes U20's this year so you may well be right.

Geez I didn't think to google it!

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

More than a little concerned by Robinson's statement on Breakdown that NPC is "not fit for purpose" & wondering how it could possibly be made so without seriously undermining what I think most would agree is the bedrock of NZ rugby.

Much more than a little concerned by the just-released governance & structure review conducted as part of the SilverLake deal concluding in part that there are too many Provincial Unions (PU) paying too many players too much money & having too much influence over how the game is run at the National level ("Junior Advisory Board" etc.).

The reviewers seem to be big fans of Ireland's four academy, four regional team approach but I'm not sure that translates to NZ even if there's six academies & regions (review flat out counts MP (Moana Pasifika) as part of the NZR structure). There's also reference to Schools & Club rugby being the "true grass roots" which is true to a point but ignores the fact that every PU board that I know of has representatives from the Clubs & Schools in their area.

I think it's pretty clear that there's going to be an almighty power struggle between the PU & NZR, the result of which will shape the future of our game for decades. I just hope that in five years we're not debating "Not having NPC (& Heartland) is better how?" (to pinch a thread title from another G&GR forum).

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Much more than a little concerned by the just-released governance & structure review conducted as part of the SilverLake deal concluding in part that there are too many Provincial Unions (PU) paying too many players too much money & having too much influence over how the game is run at the National level ("Junior Advisory Board" etc.).

The reviewers seem to be big fans of Ireland's four academy, four regional team approach but I'm not sure that translates to NZ even if there's six academies & regions (review flat out counts MP (Moana Pasifika) (Moana Pasifika) as part of the NZR structure). There's also reference to Schools & Club rugby being the "true grass roots" which is true to a point but ignores the fact that every PU board that I know of has representatives from the Clubs & Schools in their area.

I think it's pretty clear that there's going to be an almighty power struggle between the PU & NZR, the result of which will shape the future of our game for decades. I just hope that in five years we're not debating "Not having NPC (& Heartland) is better how?" (to pinch a thread title from another G&GR forum).

LOL NZ Rugby is so completely and inexorably rooted.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

400k up in smoke in 80 minutes.

Havent read the big review but the gist seems to be 5 or 6 soup teams and 14 unions is unsustainable at a pro$$ level

Would love to see them get shot of Soup Rugby and just have NPC

AUCKLAND
BAY OF PLENTY
CANTERBURY
COUNTIES MANUKAU
HAWKE'S BAY
MANAWATU
NORTH HARBOUR
NORTHLAND
OTAGO
SOUTHLAND
TARANAKI
TASMAN
WAIKATO
WELLINGTON

.....which would never work as 14 pro teams is too many and half the players would get crap pay and bugger off overseas.

Oh well, will CC in @zer0 he'll have the solution

 

[Dan54]

Bloody hell!!! I see Taniwha have stuffed my picks for this weekend by giving Hawkes Bay a bit of a touch up, how's a man meant to pick in this comp??

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

LOL NZ Rugby is so completely and inexorably rooted.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

400k up in smoke in 80 minutes.

Havent read the big review but the gist seems to be 5 or 6 soup teams and 14 unions is unsustainable at a pro$$ level

Would love to see them get shot of Soup Rugby and just have NPC

AUCKLAND
BAY OF PLENTY
CANTERBURY
COUNTIES MANUKAU
HAWKE'S BAY
MANAWATU
NORTH HARBOUR
NORTHLAND
OTAGO
SOUTHLAND
TARANAKI
TASMAN
WAIKATO
WELLINGTON

.....which would never work as 14 pro teams is too many and half the players would get crap pay and bugger off overseas.

Oh well, will CC in @zer0 he'll have the solution

I think they're being a little disingenuous by combining the numbers for NPC & Super Rugby. Sure, there are PU's (e.g. Auckland, Wellington & even Otago) playing at venues that are ridiculously large & expensive for the crowd size they draw but OTOH how many have an alternate venue that would meet Sky's broadcast requirements? Same arguments can be made for a large proportion of Super Rugby fixtures so it's far from being entirely the fault of the PU & franchises.

Edit: worth noting that at this point Loss Bleus have only committed to playing one game at Eden Park so at least they are trying to do their bit to reduce costs.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

LOL NZ Rugby is so completely and inexorably rooted.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

400k up in smoke in 80 minutes.

Havent read the big review but the gist seems to be 5 or 6 soup teams and 14 unions is unsustainable at a pro$$ level

Would love to see them get shot of Soup Rugby and just have NPC

AUCKLAND
BAY OF PLENTY
CANTERBURY
COUNTIES MANUKAU
HAWKE'S BAY
MANAWATU
NORTH HARBOUR
NORTHLAND
OTAGO
SOUTHLAND
TARANAKI
TASMAN
WAIKATO
WELLINGTON

.....which would never work as 14 pro teams is too many and half the players would get crap pay and bugger off overseas.

Oh well, will CC in @zer0 he'll have the solution

Suggests going down the academy system would be the better option with the provincial Unions focusing more on participation and development. But if you were to go with a domestic structure. Yeah 14 wouldn't work but 8 may. Focus on the largest Unions and start from there.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ 14 into eight is a tight squeeze esp if those eight are feeding into five (or six if Moana are considered integral) Super Rugby entities. I'm not convinced it's possible without driving 30-40% of the player base offshore.

 

[Dan54]

Well all they have said it is exactly what Robinson said a couple of weeks ago anyway, that there needs to be a few pruned more or less, funnily enough just in a year where you getting teams that are knocking over bigger teams everywhere.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

^ yeah, it's almost as if Robinson knew what the review was gunna come up with wrt NPC...

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

In terms of reducing the number of NPC teams I don't think Southland would put up much of a fight & if NZR are smart enough I think they could persuade Manawatu to properly merge with Hawkes Bay a la the Tasman JV; similarly I think Northland & Counties Manukau could be persuaded to become feeder teams for North Harbour & Auckland, respectively, with all three still running teams in what I guess we'd call the NPC Championship. That leaves ten: I really don't see any of them going quietly & I'm not sure NZR would have the stomach for a fight that could end up in court: if my PU were on the chopping block I'd sure as hell be invoking the NZR's constitution & argue that it's not in the games best interest. NZR might prevail but it would get ugly.

The other solution, I think, is to dispense with the PU's altogether in terms of pro footy; set up sub-Super Rugby franchises in the main population centres; & have fully amateur comp(s) for the players who don't get a franchise contract but choose to stay in NZ.