NSW Suburban Rugby 2012

[barbarian]

Barbarian,

Are you guys in pre-season training yet? How are the numbers looking? Both of our clubs are struggling to find a ground for our trial match on the 17th, but we have been able to secure a ground for Sunday the 18th - hoping that works for you guys.

We start pre-season next week. Numbers look OK at this stage, although you never know until the first couple of sessions. Can't answer re the 17th, have to go through our President. Not sure about the availability of our ground.

I have heard rumours that Subbies wants to return Division 3 to a 10 team competition, which could mean that Brothers and wither St George or Merrylands come back up. Brothers are definitely going to be a tough proposition - you don't bring in players like Vinny Byrne and Greg Wade without some swagger. I'm not sure how the level of competition was for them in Division 4, but they will find Division 3 a step up, I think.

Brothers have silly money. I have a mate who is a pretty average subbies player, would be middle grades at a Div 1 or 2 club. They are paying him a grand just to play seconds for them. He has played for them for a few years unpaid, so they thought they should throw him a bone for his service! God knows what Byrne and co are on.

.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

the problem for your mate is that if they pay you money presumably they expect you to earn it.....pre 1995 i was offered money to coach and i turned it down on the basis that, presumably, they would expect results!

 

[Prodigy]

the problem for your mate is that if they pay you money presumably they expect you to earn it.....pre 1995 i was offered money to coach and i turned it down on the basis that, presumably, they would expect results!

Do you still coach? If so, where?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Do you still coach? If so, where?

If I answered that you'd work out who I was

 

[Prodigy]

If I answered that you'd work out who I was

Didn't realise it was a big issue.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

it's easier this way

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I dont think so

 

[Jnor]

So you ARE Robbie Deans!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I wish - then I could get us out of the mess we're in...Actually JON would be better - then I could sack Deans, do the coaching myself, and send more resources to grassroots rugby

 

[Ozzie Bob]

With all this talk of paying players, how do your clubs attract players?

Bobs are both lucky and unlucky that they are attached to the school. That means that we do have a supply of players who come from the school, but it also gives the perception that people who didnt go to the school arent welcome, which isnt the case!

How does your club attract players? I must say Prodigy i was very impressed that Epping had two colts teams last year, and have had good numbers in that area for a while. Have you guys built a relationship with Eastwood to get left over colts? Are you guys doing something in schools? I know you had a great deal of success in 2005 with the Woodies combo of Barr and Fongie!!!!!!

How do other clubs get their numbers up?

 

[Prodigy]

We are lucky at the moment - we have a fair stream of players coming from two local schools which are pretty strong rugby schools. A number of our juniors go on to play colts up at Eastwood and then return when they have had enough. Alot of guys have mates playing at the Woods and around the place, and invite them down. It has a decent success rate.

We tried to develop a relationship with Eastwood to get their left over colts but with little luck. We were hoping that our second colts team last year could be their 'fourth grade' colts but couldn't get the system to work. In saying that though, they did mention us as an option for a number of players that they cut (then tried to get back).

 

[Ozzie Bob]

Prodigy, sounds like a typical grade club, and they cant get their house in order! But again well done on two teams in colts, its a great achievement, and BOBs are now starting to see the players flow through the grades from having colts teams for the past 5 years!

We are clubs having their first trial hit outs????

Also another questions for the clubs out there! Do you have to share your ground with anybody else? If so how do they hold up to a whole season of traffic?

 

[Prodigy]

Our first trial is 17th/18th March vs Kings Old Boys, depending on ground availability.

We share our ground with Epping Juniors, which is easy because we don't have to worry too much about being there on the same day or weekend. We also have a mini's field for the 6's-9's, which reduces traffic.

To reduce the wear on the field, we try to stay away from the field as much as possible - training as much as we can on the outskirts of the field and on the mini field. Might be a bit harder to do that at Turramurra Oval though!

 

[Crashy]

From memory snow subbed have tabled their initention to make subbies an amateur comp but there has been pushback from certain clubs. In vic there is a comp called the Amos ( afl) which is mainly made up of old boys clubs and other non district clubs. Sadly I think the Shute shield is eating itself by going down the payment of players route. I hope it doesn't head that way in subbies.
Nice to see a fellow BOB on this blog-I have signed up to co coach 5ths this year so we'll be fielding a fifth grade for the full season for the first time in a few years which is good for depth. Be good to give those knox swine a touch-up.

 

[Crashy]

Sorry damn blackberrys. I meant to say that Subbies intend clubs to sign a amateur agreement....

 

[grievous]

Barbarian,

A couple of years ago, Subbies started to get the sh!ts with Division 2 clubs not supplying Colts teams, as is the requirement for the division, so they have started to ask clubs without Colts to 'show cause' as o why they should remain in Div 2. They did it to Newport and Waverley a little while ago and both were able to supply colts the following year.

With a few Division 3 clubs now supporting a third Colts competition (which only survived because my club, Epping, provided two teams), positions in Division 2 were always going to be difficult to keep on this basis.

Unfortunately for Blacktown, there doesn't seem to be an answer for their Colts problem (even though they won the Radford Cup Colts competition in 2010). Even in that year, it didn't really come together for them until halfway through the season.

It is a shame for Blacktown because their first and second grade teams both just missed semi finals last year. Their coach is also the Subbies rep coach this year and they have some bloody good players.

Ozzie Bob,
I'm not sure about the other top clubs in Division 2, but Petersham and Balmain will both be very competitive. Both Clubs have been able to attract (not sure if they pay, but possibly) high quality players from grade teams and overseas, and have very good set-ups and structures. My prediction is that Balmain will finish mid table on the Club Championship, Petersham will follow Hunters Hill and finish second this year, before winning the Division 2 Club Championship in 2013. I do agree that it is going to be a very close competition - in terms of results and geographically.

I have heard rumours that Subbies wants to return Division 3 to a 10 team competition, which could mean that Brothers and wither St George or Merrylands come back up. Brothers are definitely going to be a tough proposition - you don't bring in players like Vinny Byrne and Greg Wade without some swagger. I'm not sure how the level of competition was for them in Division 4, but they will find Division 3 a step up, I think.

Barbarian,

Are you guys in pre-season training yet? How are the numbers looking? Both of our clubs are struggling to find a ground for our trial match on the 17th, but we have been able to secure a ground for Sunday the 18th - hoping that works for you guys.

St George cant field 4 competitive sides despite a having a freakingly good 3rd grade side that that fell at the final hurdle, rugby doesnt have the participation in outer south and shire areas. A colts team might be an issue too. Merrylands would be the obvious choice here.
I agree wiith trying to cement a 10 team comp from div 1-3 but not if teams are not ready, div 3 was very close through all grades throughout the year however this drops away badly in div 4-6 and teams always seem to drop out, Rockdale is a classic, they never finish with as many teams as they start with.

 

[Ozzie Bob]

St George cant field 4 competitive sides despite a having a freakingly good 3rd grade side that that fell at the final hurdle, rugby doesnt have the participation in outer south and shire areas. A colts team might be an issue too. Merrylands would be the obvious choice here.
I agree wiith trying to cement a 10 team comp from div 1-3 but not if teams are not ready, div 3 was very close through all grades throughout the year however this drops away badly in div 4-6 and teams always seem to drop out, Rockdale is a classic, they never finish with as many teams as they start with.

I will be keeping a close eye on Brothers, they had a terrible 2010, but then with the new players that you mentioned they swept all before them in 2011, its going to be interesting to see how they go!

Yes i think its going to be tough to keep 4th Div going, especially if they take Brothers and Merrylands out and put them in Div 3! But time for clubs like Lane Cove and Harlequins to step up!!!!

 

[Ozzie Bob]

From memory snow subbed have tabled their initention to make subbies an amateur comp but there has been pushback from certain clubs. In vic there is a comp called the Amos ( afl) which is mainly made up of old boys clubs and other non district clubs. Sadly I think the Shute shield is eating itself by going down the payment of players route. I hope it doesn't head that way in subbies.
Nice to see a fellow BOB on this blog-I have signed up to co coach 5ths this year so we'll be fielding a fifth grade for the full season for the first time in a few years which is good for depth. Be good to give those knox swine a touch-up.

Crashy! Great to see we have got our 5ths together. Im in London for the next couple of years, but it will be great to keep an eye on the clubs progress via the web!!!

Good luck with the team, also great that we start with Knox, it will ensure a great turnout for round one in terms of numbers!

 

[Rugby Central]

The support for Suburban Rugby is fantastic but 10 team comps are too hard. The reason why so many clubs collapse at the end of the year is because they don't have the money to maintain the numbers after injuries. 8 team comps would allow for a shorter season or more breaks and would provide a more even distribution of teams across the divisions.

Personally I would be happy with Rugby being played 12 months a year but the body would not and I know very few in Suburban ranks that could.

 

[Rugby Central]

From memory snow subbed have tabled their initention to make subbies an amateur comp but there has been pushback from certain clubs. In vic there is a comp called the Amos ( afl) which is mainly made up of old boys clubs and other non district clubs. Sadly I think the Shute shield is eating itself by going down the payment of players route. I hope it doesn't head that way in subbies.
Nice to see a fellow BOB on this blog-I have signed up to co coach 5ths this year so we'll be fielding a fifth grade for the full season for the first time in a few years which is good for depth. Be good to give those knox swine a touch-up.

A fixed amateur comp would be great. However, I think if Clubs wish to put money into their players etc. then they should be allowed to. They just have to play in a separate competition. There are some clubs that are quite well off financially and are well run. Much better than many Shute Shield Clubs. By creating semi-professional clubs openly at Kentwell level there will be better competition for players and the "sacred cow" status of many of the Shute Shield clubs will be shattered. Which can only be good for Sydney Rugby.

Each year as part of the grading process (it's not entirely automatic) Clubs apply to be a part of the comp with money or not. They then sign a binding agreement that says they will not pay players at all, will be subject to an audit (at their expense) if 3 clubs make a formal complaint, and will be fined the value of any payments (or in kind contributions). Most people know who's got the money so if any of them try to say "We're completely amateur" then they will get found out very quickly. It will also become very expensive through auditing fees to try and maintain the charade.

It might be sad that it would come to this but it will bring all payments out into the open and will strengthen the top level while helping all other Clubs. Surely that is the main goal. To improve the quality of Sydney Rugby Union and increase the enjoyment level of those playing solely for the love of the game.