National Tournaments 2014

[George Smith]

From 2014 expect to see the pathway to be amended to focus on 15s, 17s, 20s. This will go somewhere towards addressing the current 16s issues as well as provide a better stepped pathway to focus on the 20s.

Whilst our Schoolboys (U18s) team has been enjoying success recently our U20s teams' results have been unacceptable.

We play teams that from the Northern Hemisphere where they have come off a mini 6 Nations Tournament prior to the World Cup. Our lads pre-tournament warm up is a trials/camp!

Maybe we should amend Bill Pulver's super-rugby B comp and replace it with a National conference style U20s comp.

 

[George Smith]

Whilst the 15s and 17s can follow the ARU's proposed format the U20s could be marketed with a high profile and that of "junior super rugby".

The competition could be conducted along the structure of:

 

[George Smith]

15s and 17s could also be run along similar structure but under the guise of the ARUs Junior Gold program. Culminating in an Easter tournament that allows players to finish their 'rep' commitments and lets them return to concentrate on the club and/or school commitments.

Therefore, in NSW, the Rep season would be:
June: State Champs
July: Regionals
Dec-Feb: skills training (JGS, club devt programs)
Mar: Team assembly & training
Easter: Tournament

 

[Hugh Jarse]

What is the eligibility criteria for U15 and U17?
a. Playing Club,
b. Playing School,
c. Playing both,
d. Think I am good at playing rugby and want to give it a go to see if I can make reps.

To get around the Juniors vs Schools vs Colts argument, I presume that the tournaments will be run by ARU (NSWRU/SRU and QRU/BRU and equivalent), and that SJRU, NSW CJRU, BJRU, NSW Schools RU, Qld Schools RU) will butt out of any organisational duties, unless these are under ARU direction.

Will the Schools release their U17's to participate in this pathway?
Plenty of U17 boys play 1st XV rugby. Some of these may have some commercial arrangement with the Schools.

I'd say that there may be resistance to Combined States and ACT getting 1/2 as many rep slots as those available to QLD and NSW.

Do the player numbers from ACT and the proposed Combined States justify that advantage?
Perhaps the ARU should reserve the right to place an "unlucky" QLD or NSW boy into these teams.

I'm still struggling to see how this proposed revised pathway will encourage any more kids to play village club footy, or get more schools developing a rugby programme. It seems entirely geared towards the elite rather than broadening the base of the pyramid.

 

[George Smith]

Perhaps the ARU should reserve the right to place an "unlucky" QLD or NSW boy into these teams.

good points Huge. I propose it is Open to all players within the age group. Schools will need to support the program and given it will be all over by Easter the 17s playing 1st XV shouldn't be too much of a problem. Normally, SLSA, Cricket, Basketball and Rowing are all finished by Easter so shouldn't be too much of a concern.

Yes it is skewed towards the elite and accordingly I propose it is totally run by the ARU HPU with support and coordination from the new GM Participation.

In terms of grass roots see post #8 below.

 

[George Smith]

Selection for initial qualification trials will be a combination of the existing identification system for JGS (State Champs, School competitions) as well as a more developed District Academies system. That is, expand the current concept of Sydney Premiership Clubs (Randwick, Norths etc) who have invited talented 15+ Juniors to their off season training sessions. This could also be incorporated into the existing ARU points ($) system.

There are approx 23 JGS Academies in place for 14-18 year olds and from this base I reckon we should be able to get it approx 90% right to form 13 teams for initial qualification games.

 

[George Smith]

I am also proposing that we dissassemble all junior administration bodies and restructure along the lines of the parent bodies administering all competitions. That would mean in NSW we only have one elected body, the NSWRU. We could utilise the Subbies system and admin, under the NSWRU, who would be charged with running all Sydney competitions from Minis, Midis/Juniors and Seniors. Premiership rugby clubs would remain the first division clubs with all other divisions adjusting accordingly. Country would have a similar role to Subbies (to be renamed) and run the various zone based competitions. Rep programs (teams and pathway) to be run by the ARU.

 

[George Smith]

The development of rugby participation should be concentrating on the administration of a club rather than pure player development. How many parents and supporters in the community understand the semi-legal jargon and complications of running a club and understanding the competition rules?

Therefore, the new GM Participation at the ARU could have as his KRAs retention (rewards/recognition), attraction (player and officials) and club health as measured by the number of clubs/schools playing, teams and players (ie. not just players as it is currently).

The person could also implement an assessment of "Club Health" tool delivering a rating of bronze, silver and gold (similar to Swimming) where clubs qualify for rewards such as laptops, training gear, balls, boots, analysis software etc based on a 100pt checklist and review. Items on the checklist would range from Committee structure, marketing (website etc) through to skills development programs.

 

[George Smith]

Do the player numbers from ACT and the proposed Combined States justify that advantage?

The final comp structure allows/compensates for this somewhat as well (ie seedings) which is better than a Div I and Div II structure?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Which part of this is a done deal in so far as the ARU are more or less locked it in, and which is a proposal from George Smith leveraging off that ARU proposal to roll similar out across the pathway?

A lot of what you say makes sense, and something desperately needs to be done.

Just a thought about Easter, while much of the population considers this a good holiday, there are some of our population that have certain religious obligations over Easter that would otherwise rule them out.

There are large sections of the PI community that identify as Mormon/Seventh Day Adventist that are not permitted to participate in sporting activities on Sunday.

I am not up to speed on the whole Christian thing, but some other Christian denominations also take Good Friday and Easter Sunday pretty seriously.

Where does the Rugby 7's pathway fit in with all this?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I am also proposing that we dissassemble all junior administration bodies and restructure along the lines of the parent bodies administering all competitions. That would mean in NSW we only have one elected body, the NSWRU. We could utilise the Subbies system and admin, under the NSWRU, who would be charged with running all Sydney competitions from Minis, Midis/Juniors and Seniors. Premiership rugby clubs would remain the first division clubs with all other divisions adjusting accordingly. Country would have a similar role to Subbies (to be renamed) and run the various zone based competitions. Rep programs (teams and pathway) to be run by the ARU.

A courageous decision.

The bloody parent bodies are probably less competent than many of the Junior bodies you seek to do away with.

Reform is definitely needed but be careful to retain the better parts of what we have.

Logic and efficiency are desired, but these characteristics could hardly be used to describe Rugby administration and organisations in Australia. In some respects it is one of its enduring charms, otherwise every club would be like McDonalds.

 

[George Smith]

Just a thought about Easter, while much of the population considers this a good holiday, there are some of our population that have certain religious obligations over Easter that would otherwise rule them out.

I tend to separate sport from religion and politics.

 

[George Smith]

Where does the Rugby 7's pathway fit in with all this?

Unfortunately the current positions are:
ARU: Treat 7s as a separate program and administration
NSWJRU: have no position at all
SJRU: Has started talking about Clubs running a district comps only and let tournaments grow organically.

I would like to totally integrate the administration of SEVENS and WOMENS and cut out the that it needs to be separately administered.

SJRU need to organise competitions under a single administration and methodology and the NSWJRU need to include womens comps for each age group within the existing State Champs.

I like the idea that sevens become a summer sport. Term 4 for schools and over summer for Clubs with finals in February.

 

[George Smith]

A courageous decision.

The bloody parent bodies are probably less competent than many of the Junior bodies you seek to do away with.

Reform is definitely needed but be careful to retain the better parts of what we have.

Logic and efficiency are desired, but these characteristics could hardly be used to describe Rugby administration and organisations in Australia. In some respects it is one of its enduring charms, otherwise every club would be like McDonalds.

agree, that is why I propose to utilise the current administrators of the Sydney Juniors comp ie. Subbbies, Mark Green and his staff with the structure to administer all competitions in metropolitan Sydney.

SJRU proved this year they cannot cope with reps and should be left to Club comps (but with official recognition that the comp administrators are actually currently employed by Subbies).

All NSWJRU does is organise the annual State Champs but have no vision with respect to women or sevens. Refer post #13.

 

[Jets]

While I like the idea I can see a few issues.

Schools will not want to loose any power that they currently have in the elite pathway. Australian Schoolboys have a long and strong tradition of developing talent and providing the first real opportunity for many to play for their country.

Other bodies that control Junior rugby, for example, feel that they have an important part to play in the development program too.

Centralising the control all competitions is also something that is beyond the capabilities of the ARU currently and being in charge of everything creates its own dramas.

You have obviously thought this through long and hard George Smith and that is to be commended. If this change does take place then it will need to be introduced delicately.

 

[George Smith]

In respect to the competition management it is proposed that the respective State Unions continue to 'own' and run these. For many the State Union already have the proposed model in place, and for some time. In NSW, with the greatest number of players and the relative under performance (numbers of participants and financial health) the ARU may need to 'support and facilitate' the change through an active PMO in conjunction with Nick FJ and his team.

 

[George Smith]

Realignment of the SRU (Premiership Clubs), Subbies and Juniors will need to occur. Schools would not necessarily be directly involved until Stage 2.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

George Smith, Any chance you can play a round or two of Golf with the Pulveriser?

 

[George Smith]

George Smith, Any chance you can play a round or two of Golf with the Pulveriser?

happy to, why don't you arrange it for Rose Bay?

 

[George Smith]

Restructure/Realignment - Stage 2

As part of the retention/attraction strategy I would then facilitate 'graded competitions' for both Saturdays and Sundays for all participants. Whereas Saturday comps have not been attractive for Club rugby they will when a robust and competitive competitions are conducted. This will be achieved through the co-operation of schools.

Saturdays - U16, U17, U18
Clubs and schools to participate.
a) Independent schools conduct their own association A-C Comps and for the D-H age group grades they can enter & participate in local competitions.
b) Premiership Rugby to expand to include; Grade (1-3), Colts (1-3rd) + Inter-District Comp (14-18s) on Sundays.

Sundays – 10-15s
Juniors - Intra-District comps for 10-18s based on broad geographic areas (eg Northern Peninsula, North Shore, City, South, West). New ‘City’ area includes Easts, Randwick, Syd Uni, Balmain, Drummoyne and Wests.
Premiership Rugby – to run a Inter-District ‘A/Rep’ Comp (14-18s) on Sundays.

This would mean that parents have only to drive around their own locality to get a good game of footy. For those players who want to compete at an elite level then they can be involved in a Sydney wide comp based on District teams.