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Melbourne Rebels 2011

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Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Let's assume that Melbourne definitely gets the 15th team – which players will realistically be available to play for them in 2011, without making pie in the sky assumptions? We don't know when the contracts of some players expire; nor do we know for certain which players were cut for 2010, let alone will be for 2011, but some reasonable suppositions can be made.


It will be fair enough to nominate a few domestic players from other squads who we think are off contract in 2010, even if we are not certain, and we think there is a chance they will be interested in making a move. In particular, we can look at players who we think may be off contract in 2010, and are 2nd stringers, but have the quality to start in games – or, in the case of young players, will be by 2011.


With offshore players: we can assume that a few journeymen will return if they are given a Super15 opportunity – and if it turns out that the players we name are contracted beyond May 2010, or otherwise will not return here, there is every chance that other journeymen who are not nominated will be available instead.


Please add names to the list in the next post for discussion, or recommend that some be deleted. Use, as much as is possible with our inferior knowledge of player availability compared to those doing the selection at Melbourne, the same thought processes that they will use. I have nominated many Sydney club players because I know them well, but please post some names of players from other places who are better known to you than to me. Don't nominate anybody who was at school in 2009.


Most of the names on the list in the next post are not household names. With such a short lead time, and the staggered timing of contract terminations, this was always going to be the case. We can all remember some of the scrubbers who were given 1 year contracts by John Mitchell at the Force in Year 1. It will take 3-4 years of accumulated decisions of players not to go overseas until the quality of the Melbourne team rises.


Therefore people who want to post that the list proves that we should not have a 5th team should be quiet for a few years, (or at least start their own thread on the matter.) And if they say that it would be better to have an ARC competion than a 5th Super team they will get no argument from any sentient poster on this forum. But until some funding of such a competition can be sourced, I'll take the 5th Super team to get more Aussies playing professional rugby, warts and all.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Here is a list of players to get the ball rolling and the teams they have played for, and/or are playing for, and/or will play for:

1.
Ofa Fainga’anuku (Tahs Academy, Central Cost Rays), Eddie Aholelei (Manly)

2.
Adam Freier cap. (Brumbies, Tahs, Oz); Ole Avei (Reds, Waikato)

3. Lotu Taukeiaho (Randwick); Jack Kennedy (Brumbies Academy, Reds)

4/5. Scott Fardy (Force, Kamaishi); Cameron Treloar (Reds, Calvisano) Luke Doherty (Reds, Force, Tahs, Kuyden); Kane Douglas (Tahs Academy, Oz U20)

6. Dave Dennis (Tahs, Oz); Julian Salvi (Brumbies, Bath, Oz A)

7. Beau Robinson (Tahs, Benevento); Tim McGann (NSW A, Munster)

8. Tim Davidson (Force, Tahs); Trevor Richardson (Ireland U/21, Connacht)

9. Brendan McKibbin (Reds, Saracens); James Stannard (Force, Brumbies, Oz 7s)

10. Matt To'omua (Brumbies, Western Province); Scott Daruda (Force, Agen, Oz A)

12.
Gene Fairbanks (Reds, Brumbies, Wallabies squad); Tom Carter (Tahs)

13. Tim Wright (Brumbies, Oz 7s); Rown Kellam (Brumbies Academy)

Wingers. Ed Jenkins (Perth Spirt, Taranaki, Oz 7s); Peter Playford (Brumbies, Tasman, Tahs); Nick Edwards (Sydney University), Peter Betham (Brumbies)

15. Nathan Trist (Melbourne Rebels, Oz 7s); Ben Batger (Brumbies, Hawkes Bay, Tahs)
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
This is a list of alternates with the younger ones being candidates for the Melbourne Academy.


1. Jeremy Tilse (Tahs); Campese Ma’afu (West Pirates)

2.
Luke Holmes (Force); Nathan Charles (Brumbies Academy; Oz U/20); Albert Anae (Reds Academy) ; Elvis Taione (Manly)

3.
Barry Fa’amuasili (Eastwood), Pat Ryan (Sydney University)

4/5.
Siviteni Mafi (NSW Academy); Will Munsie (East Coast Aces); Tim Maxwell (Randwick); Damien Lloyd (West Pirates)

6.
Pat McCutcheon (Sydney Fleet, Tahs Academy, Oz 7s); Dylan Sigg (Central Coast Rays, Tahs Academy); Ed Brenac (Sydney Fleet, Oz 7s)

7. Samisoni Latinipulu (Tahs Academy, Oz U/20), Seilala Lam (Randwick, Oz U/20)

8. Jack Lam (Waikato), Chris Alcock (Gordon)

9. Scott Stumbles (Sydney Uni); Jeremy Sua (Tahs Academy)

10. Tim Walsh (Reds, Oz 7s); Dave Harvey (Central Coast Rays); Jonno Lance (Reds Academy)

12.
Clint Eadie (Tahs Academy, Bressane); Brian Sefanaia (Manly, Oz 7s); Brett Gillespie ( Reds Academy)

13.
Tim Bennetts (Tahs Academy); Cameron Mitchell (Tahs Academy)

Wingers. John Grant (Eastwood); Clinton Sills (Oz 7s); Dom Shipperly (Reds Academy); Ed Doyle (Warringah)

15. Marshall Milroy (East Coast Aces, Oz 7s); Mark Preston (Tahs Academy)
 
S

Spook

Guest
Good stuff Lee. I would really like to add the likes of:

15. Rooney
14. Sills
13. Gasnier
12. Lealiifano (I think the Brumbies will want to keep To'omua and Lealiifano is from Melbourne of course)
11. Betham
10. Hangers
9. Holmes/Kingi
8. Ben McCalman
7. Colby Fainga'a (or Salvi even)
6. Dennis
5. Timani
4. Hand
3. Rodzilla
2. Fitzpatrick
1. Jerry Y

That backline sizzles.
 
T

TOCC

Guest
i honestly think that the Brumbies are probably going to supply the largest contingent of players to the new melbourne side, there are a lot of players in Canberra who probably deserve the opportunity to be starting S15 players but arent going to get that opportunity behind the likes of Elsom, Smith, Giteau and Mortlock.
 

eddo

Larry Dwyer (12)
If I was going to bring in an import I'd sign Ben Blair.

Hands down the most consistent fullback going around.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
For the sake of argument, Ill keep the ball rolling:

15 Damon Murphy (Clinton Shifcofske has been in top form too apparently)
14 Ant Sauer
13 James Harvey
12 Charlie Fetoai (can see him moving on from the Reds)
11 Brando Va'aulu (likewise)
10 Elia Tuqiri
9 Nick Berry
8 Andew Rossiter
7 Tom McVerry
6 Dan Heenan
5 Pat O'Connor
4 Liam Shaw
3 Herman Hunt
2 Saia Fainga'a (please)
1 Gaven Warren
 

Newb

Trevor Allan (34)
i don't think it's too much of a jump to list Barnes as available for the 10/12 spot as we know he'll be off contract.
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
off contract but with traditional blue running through his veins!

but yeah, berrick, frier, tilse, gasnier, beau robinson, leiufanio (spell?), possibly need a few big signings up front, rodney blake a chance perhaps?
 
S

Spook

Guest
eddo said:
If I was going to bring in an import I'd sign Ben Blair.

Hands down the most consistent fullback going around.

...except in Super rugby finals :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT6cLWw9nLM
 

waratahjesus

Greg Davis (50)
i hope we dont bring in to many imports, i know the new team needds to be competitive, but i hate the fact the tahs signed a kiwi winger and that the force have a saffa flyhalf, we need to build depth in those positions and a couple of years of pain would be far greater to the australian rugby team than a quick fix.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
I wouldn't mind so much if the Melbourne team were allowed to use 3-4 foreigners to give the team a leg up, provided that they foot the bill with 3rd party sponsors. Then after a few years they would have to be on the same playing field as the other squads - 1 marquee and one developing foreigner.

I found it difficult to come up with proven quality in some positions, which is not surprising. One of the rationales for having an ARC was to develop the rugby of promising grade players and even the better Colts, and another was to filter out the best of them so the Super coaches could go shopping for Academy and squad groceries.

But we don't have one - and I digress by saying that I am watching a live ANZC match from NZ as I type these words - and will be able to watch 2 live Currie Cup matches from South Africa starting at midnight tonight. Farque.

But back on topic: the choices in the LHP and Outside Centre departments in the Oz Rugby supermarket are particularly limited. They have all these Brand X, Y and Z player ingredients who may be OK for our new Super team, but we don't know how good they are until we try them out in a recipe.

Who knows for example if Gillespie, Wright, Bennetts, Harvey, Mitchell or other players who may be nominated to play outside centre, will be any good in Super rugby - because we have only seen them in club rugby or the odd Academy type game? How much better would it have been to make choices if the defunct ARC had been in its 3rd year in 2009?

[And, really digressing now: did I just hear in the ANZC match I am watching, the referee saying something like: "That's OK - it was a dominant tackle." What brand of rugby am I watching?]

The Melbourne team will probably get more quality players from other squads and from offshore players returning than we have nominated. Also, there will be a lot of water going under the rugby bridge in the next 15 months and some serendipity will emerge from it.

The team won't be the greatest Super team ever, but it may be better than we think especially, as I have mentioned several times: after 3-4 years of accumulated decisions by Oz players not to go overseas and especially not early in their careers.
 

Aussie D

Desmond Connor (43)
1 Jerry Y (agree with whoever mentioned him), possibly Karl Rakebrandt (sp?)
2 Freir (if he is willing to leave the 'tahs for another Oz province) or Elvis Levi (from Penrith)
3 Rodzilla (if available), Herman Hunt or possibly Dan Palmer (depends on what Baxter does)
4 Kane Douglas / Steve Mafi
5 Pat O'Conner
6 Ben Coridas (is he contracted to the 'tahs?)
7 Beau Robbo (whatever happened to the young flanker from CC Rays - played for Warringah?)
8 Import with the potential to play for Oz (If not Rocky as captain)
9 Jerry Sua
10 Matt To'omua
12 Christian Lealifano
13 Alfi Mafi
wingers Not really sure of these as no winger has stood out in Oz for a while (where is the Campese legacy of scores of talented players wanting to play wing?)
15 Rosengreen? (uni fullback who played for Oz U19 when they won the YWC)
 

Bruce Ross

Ken Catchpole (46)
It is interesting that of the various names mentioned so far as possible signings for the new franchise no fewer than 21 were developed through the Sydney University Colts program.

That of course doesn't count the other Uni players on Super 14 contracts or playing professionally overseas, plus at least six others from Sydney Uni who may well be in contention for Super 15 contracts for 2011.
 

The Chosen

Fred Wood (13)
Bruce Ross said:
It is interesting that of the various names mentioned so far as possible signings for the new franchise no fewer than 21 were developed through the Sydney University Colts program.

That of course doesn't count the other Uni players on Super 14 contracts or playing professionally overseas, plus at least six others from Sydney Uni who may well be in contention for Super 15 contracts for 2011.

Hang on- I'd say the initial development happened in various Junior Club/Schools programmes.
Sydney Uni may have contributed to further nurturing due to incentives offered to various players- see ongoing whinges re Sydney Uni elsewhere on numerous streams! :fishing
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
To discuss some of the players mentioned:

1. Jerry Yanuyanutawa - didn't include him because I thought he was stitched up by the Brumbies but on checking I find that he was just in their Academy for this year. Yeah - add him in.

13. Mark Gasnier He started for SF on the wing last season but was sometimes used at 13 and as 1st receiver from the rucks. But they've got him parked on the wing again this year and that's not good for his rugby development. We have to be circumspect and not assume that highly paid players who have got a gig in French galatico clubs will want to come back here. Gasnier won't be enticed back by a 5th Super team, but he may be tempted by the 2011 RWC.

Wing - Luke Rooney - I've seen him a bit last year for Toulon and some this season and he looks like a union winger now, and a good one too. He's not afraid of the touch line as the likes of Sailor was - and indeed Gaz was last year. But see remarks about Gasnier as to high pay.

3. Rodzilla - same remarks and also add: why leave a country where THPs are kings and paid accordingly?

6/7. Coridas
- He has a rookie contract with the Tahs for 2010 but nothing afterwards.

Wing - Clinton Sills - Though he's played for Oz 7s he is yet to play in a senior game. Watch this space.

9. Nick Berry? Is he still around? Playing for whom? Playing OK? How old is he these days?

14/15. Lachlan Rosengreen was playing for Uni up to last year, but I haven't noticed him this year. When he was at school a friend of the family told me that there was doubt if he ever wanted to have a rugby career. Maybe he has dropped out. We assume that most schoolboys in rep rugby have a dream to be professional rugby players, but I can assure everybody that it is not always the case.



Bruce Ross

Welcome aboard.

Actually their schools would argue that they developed as rugby players there - and their junior clubs would say the same if they went to a state school.

What Uni is good at is having old boys who are trustees of a trust that helps out with fees and, significantly, to get the boys into courses when their UAI scores don't warrant it. And Uni will never have to worry about not being able to afford to have a full time 1st Grade coach as Gordon did.

But you have to admit that their old boys scouting abilities are good and once they leave school and are selected for the club, the coaching and conditioning programme for the lads is 2nd to none. And you have to admit that boys out of school would want to go to a club that has had a lot of success.

We are lucky on this forum that we don't have any posters who are officials at the other 11 Sydney clubs. There would be page after page of comments of the playing field not being level and that the genesis of Uni's success is from that uneven playing field.

But maybe it's just me.
 
M

Mole

Guest
Nick Berry is playing for racing metro in french comp. He is 24yrs old.

My foundation team would include

1)Lepeka/Aholelei/Ofa
2)Charles (Only academy deal in 2010) or Hanson (Where has he gone hate him highly)
3)Weekes (off contract at reds)
4)Fardy (1 yr deal in japan at present)
5)Heenen (Best player in japanese league we never saw the best of this bloke)
6)Dennis (No contract at present in wallabies squad)
7)Jenkins J (This bloke can play is 23, no one has seen the best of this bloke)
8)Davidson (5 time captain of SUFC-make him captain???)
9)Berry (Playing well in France)
10)Halangahu (Off contract at tahs after next season will command top dollar O/S only 25. good foundation player)
11)Mafi (off contract at Brumbies in 2010-again have not seen the best of this bloke only 21)
12)Carter (off contract and had a great club season MOM in Club rugby grand final)
13)Gasnier (Will attract crowds-going well in France off contract)
14)Betham/Jenkins (one been injured has a point of different-Jenkins playing in Air NZ cup)
15)Mitchell (MOM for for Wasps in club game last week- only 22 talented bloke if can get him back)

Steve Kefu and his younger Brother who is playing in France
Mark Gerrad only 26 surely got something to offer.
Need some more power up front young Albert Anne as a loosehead if QLD yet him go. Pretty sure Jerry Y is on contract at brumbies
Some second row power needed also-Will Caldwell maybe-
Nick Edwards -just been selected in USA squad- will push for world cup selection one would think


Note: All of starting players are either off contract in 2010 or not contracted to an Australian Province in 2011. Note not pulling the heart out of other provinces either. Attracting 4-5 AUST players rather than foreign players back to melb a better alternative IMO.
 

Scarfman

Knitter of the Scarf
Lee Grant said:
Bruce Ross

Welcome aboard.

Actually their schools would argue that they developed as rugby players there - and their junior clubs would say the same if they went to a state school.

What Uni is good at is having old boys who are trustees of a trust that helps out with fees and, significantly, to get the boys into courses when their UAI scores don't warrant it. And Uni will never have to worry about not being able to afford to have a full time 1st Grade coach as Gordon did.

But you have to admit that their old boys scouting abilities are good and once they leave school and are selected for the club, the coaching and conditioning programme for the lads is 2nd to none. And you have to admit that boys out of school would want to go to a club that has had a lot of success.

We are lucky on this forum that we don't have any posters who are officials at the other 11 Sydney clubs. There would be page after page of comments of the playing field not being level and that the genesis of Uni's success is from that uneven playing field.

But maybe it's just me.

:lmao: Nicely handled, Lee.

Bruce, it's great to have you here, but your work is cut out for you to overcome some very slight anti-Uni resentment that can foster among supporters of clubs that don't have degrees to hand out.

I'm an academic, BTW, and I understand why young blokes would be attracted to the Syd Uni package.
 

The Chosen

Fred Wood (13)
Scarfman said:
Lee Grant said:
Bruce Ross

Welcome aboard.

Actually their schools would argue that they developed as rugby players there - and their junior clubs would say the same if they went to a state school.

What Uni is good at is having old boys who are trustees of a trust that helps out with fees and, significantly, to get the boys into courses when their UAI scores don't warrant it. And Uni will never have to worry about not being able to afford to have a full time 1st Grade coach as Gordon did.

But you have to admit that their old boys scouting abilities are good and once they leave school and are selected for the club, the coaching and conditioning programme for the lads is 2nd to none. And you have to admit that boys out of school would want to go to a club that has had a lot of success.

We are lucky on this forum that we don't have any posters who are officials at the other 11 Sydney clubs. There would be page after page of comments of the playing field not being level and that the genesis of Uni's success is from that uneven playing field.

But maybe it's just me.

:lmao: Nicely handled, Lee.

Bruce, it's great to have you here, but your work is cut out for you to overcome some very slight anti-Uni resentment that can foster among supporters of clubs that don't have degrees to hand out.

I'm an academic, BTW, and I understand why young blokes would be attracted to the Syd Uni package.
Tt's OK, Lee & Scarfy- I admit I'm not the greatest diplomat!
 
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